Can a Dodge Viper be used as a daily driver? | #TBT

Sophistication doesn't matter much when the viper stomps ass. Neither do 1/4 times in cars geared to go over 150


Let us review:

Fast as hell: yes
Sexiful: yes
Mildly impractical: yes
Suspicions of coke use: yes
Ridiculous engine: yes
Mild risk of fire in some models: yes

Checks pretty much all the super car boxes.

dculberson said:

In reply to wspohn :

I honestly do not give one crap about hp/liter. Talk about a worthless metric when it comes to actual driving experience and speed. Hp/liter does not win races or make a car great. 

I see your point, from a driving perspective. That's what cars are about, driving, mostly. However, there is a certain quality of having to DRIVE a car to get the speed out of it, a challenge if you will. It WILL hone your driving skills if you can't simply rely on torque to get you around in any gear.

In my specific case and what I use my car for, a big displacement engine would be ideal, but... I'd be bored to tears driving it. Plus, if I built something like this in the same methods that I built my Supra, there's no tire on earth that would hold back the power that would be made from 8+ liters on the roads I drive on, effectively making the car pointless...

In reply to wspohn :

5.31 Lb per HP with a lot of head room for 750WHP NA and still be streetable is Supercar in my books. 

HP/L is so overrated. Tq/L and area under the curve is where it's at unless you are in a 1000 LBs Exocet or P car. 

Having driven a S2000 a lot and now owning and daily driving a V8 Miata, There is something to say about having 320+ Tq available at 1500 RPM. Oh and I can get 30 MPG on the Hwy too if I'm in cruising mode even in a dirty aero car like the NC miata. 

It seems people have forgotten what a supercar is because the corvette z06 basically acquired supercar performance at regular man prices and the arrival of hypercars. 

Just to make sure I understand: the Viper, with wins at Daytona, Le Mans, Sebring... is not a super car but Chevy Cobalt SS is because HP/L.  Got it. Wish I knew that when I traded in my Cavalier.

Grizz said:

Sophistication doesn't matter much when the viper stomps ass. Neither do 1/4 times in cars geared to go over 150


Let us review:

Fast as hell: yes
Sexiful: yes
Mildly impractical: yes
Suspicions of coke use: yes
Ridiculous engine: yes
Mild risk of fire in some models: yes

Checks pretty much all the super car boxes.

I like this, never understood the viper haters.

In reply to Grizz :

So a v-10 f-350 has a ridiculous engine?

Yes. When is an almost 7 liter v10 anything but ridiculous?

It also fails all the other checks except the fire hazard one.

There are no winners in the 'pedantic argument of the week'.

Driven5 said:

There are no winners in the 'pedantic argument of the week'.

 

Unfortunately you're right. Let's simplify this then, shall we. I define a supercar as the following:

-It still seems a little dream-like that it's in the garage I have keys to.

-It is fun to drive with enthusiasm.

-My 8 year old self would be thrilled to know that someday, a car like THIS would be my car.

-Kids and gearheads alike had posters of this car on the walls.

I think a Viper easily fits the description for me, even if it's a car I'll never pursue. The 90's were a cool time for open minded car geeks... =)

Well, having driven some pretty high end racing cars (Ferrari, Porsche, Riley Ford) on track, and still teach in some of these. It often depends on where you live. Up north, you can't drive the cars half the year. Here in Florida (especially Palm Beach), new high dollar Ferraris, Lambos, you name it are a dime a dozen, so rarely do people ask you about them. When I owned them up north, it was a hassle. Pot holes in the roads, people hate you and key your car, give the the "finger". Here they don't care, but I still have to be careful where I park (don't want dings in the car), watch the speed bumps, watch driveway entrances and exits, and last, I'm getting a bit older now, so getting in and out of my NSX can get painful after a day of driving. Still fun though. But I always have a "beater" to drive daily. In my case a 2007 Cadillac DTH (DeVille) with only 22,000 miles on it. Keeps the miles off the NSX, and I don't like using the sporty little car in bad weather.

wspohn said:

Only super car list the Viper wins is lowest specific output engine. Hard to respect a car that uses a low output (per liter)  engine which achieves decent power through displacement (now 8.4 liters) rather than sophisticated design.

That's about 76 bhp/liter.  My street BMW puts out 104 bhp/l and the Honda S2000 gets 120, both without any sort of turbo or supercharging. Toss a blower in and it makes it even more glaring - my street Ecotec sports car gets 187 bhp/l and still returns around 30 mpg on the highway.  And still matches the phase 1 Vipers for quarter mile and 0-60 times, using 2.0 liters in place of 8..

Sorry, just cannot see them as a super car.  

Oh, god, not the HP/Liter crap again. A Cox .049 RC airplane engine makes 400+ hp/liter, but would you want one powering your car? It wouldn't even MOVE. It's easy to make better hp/liter the smaller an engine is. No magic or superior engineering. You want more hp, you make the engine bigger, you want more hp/liter, you make it smaller. But hp/liter ONLY matters in countries where displacement is taxed and in racing classes where displacement is capped. THAT'S IT.

Is it fast as berkeley and is it likely to make people do a double take? If yes to both of these things, it is a supercar.

Plus, you can always turbo it to make better hp/liter... ;)

Yeah, it's a supercar.

911s are too commonplace to draw too much attention in most places I've lived. Most people wouldn't notice the difference between a turbo and a base 996.  The GT and RS models are a lot easier to spot with the wings, intakes,and tires etc...but once again a Viper is easier to spot.  I see them often enough I don't even think to take a picture.  I can't remember the last time I saw a Viper in the wild.

I passed a Porsche track car on I-95 near Daytona last week.  It was wrapped w/numbers, had a massive wing and was driving exactly the speed limit.  I didn't notice if it were actually an RS or GT3 model etc.  The sport-bike in front of me (passing lane) slowed by 20mph, pulled out his phone and took a picture at-speed.  I wanted to photo-document the whole thing...but that kind of distraction would have been just as dangerous. 

To me, the Viper was a part of the movement that shattered the super car segment. They weren’t my favorite per se as a younger person, but around here they are far cooler to see than the average Ferrari, Lamborghini, austin etc. 

Chris_V said:

wspohn said:

Only super car list the Viper wins is lowest specific output engine. Hard to respect a car that uses a low output (per liter)  engine which achieves decent power through displacement (now 8.4 liters) rather than sophisticated design.

That's about 76 bhp/liter.  My street BMW puts out 104 bhp/l and the Honda S2000 gets 120, both without any sort of turbo or supercharging. Toss a blower in and it makes it even more glaring - my street Ecotec sports car gets 187 bhp/l and still returns around 30 mpg on the highway.  And still matches the phase 1 Vipers for quarter mile and 0-60 times, using 2.0 liters in place of 8..

Sorry, just cannot see them as a super car.  

 

Oh, god, not the HP/Liter crap again. A Cox .049 RC airplane engine makes 400+ hp/liter, but would you want one powering your car? It wouldn't even MOVE. It's easy to make better hp/liter the smaller an engine is. No magic or superior engineering. You want more hp, you make the engine bigger, you want more hp/liter, you make it smaller. But hp/liter ONLY matters in countries where displacement is taxed and in racing classes where displacement is capped. THAT'S IT.

 

One of the reasons Vipers do so well at the track is that they are lower on the HP/Liter scale. They are seriously under stressed and can take track abuse all day due to it. Also torque is FUN. 1000hp is also just boost away, built block and 2400hp is just boost away. .

Mine only puts 682hp to the wheel which is about 765-780 crank and the thing just floats along and for a built engine it is very streetable.

100HP/liter...

How cute...

wearymicrobe said:

One of the reasons Vipers do so well at the track is that they are lower on the HP/Liter scale. They are seriously under stressed and can take track abuse all day due to it.

Bingo. Want an engine to last? Keep the revs reasonable in regards to piston speed. That said, the stroke on my engine is only 71.5mm, so it's a lot of fun (and makes a good noise) if you rev it to the moon... To me, it's more exciting to drive, even if it's not the fastest thing out there.

One thing that detracts from every day usage of these sorts of cars is the significant chance that some envious idiot will key the thing just because you own it and he doesn't.

I used my Lamborghini whenever I wanted to and didn't worry so much about leaving it parked (except in some parts of town) but a friend with a Gallardo was so worried about it that he rarely used the car and finally sold it, as he said he just wasn't getting the sort of enjoyment from it that he had expected.

Had another neighbour with a Viper who also restricted his use as it was rated as a car most likely to be vandalized if left in a parking lot.

I like this article and show it to my friends when they ask why I sold my Viper. I just wanted to drive the car, not talk to everyone about it. 

You have to be a bit of an extrovert, all right. I grew up building custom cars and show cars, so I'm used to talking to people about cars at every stop. Doesn't bug me, and in fact, it just part of the experience.

Everything from this car:

to this one:

...made people want to stop and talk about them. In fact, it's kind of boring driving a car no one wants to talk to you about at this point... lol! I need another exotic/custom car...

In reply to wspohn :

Who else on GRM driving lambs, vipers, and McLaren? Geez

My gold 78 T/A probably gets as much attention as my bright red Ferrari,  but it seems ALL the attention towards the T/A is positive.  People just love that car.  I’m not a huge fan of the attention either,  but I love the cars.  A lot of my driving in the Ferrari or the Porsches is weekend spirited backroad stuff....that way I can focus on enjoying the cars