I'm slowly coming around to the idea of an older tow rig vs a newer F150.
The less money I have in the tow rig, the more money I have for tires and track time.
There seems to be a huge price spread on these even in relatively similar condition. Tons of space, I could always sleep in it at the track (more money saved). I remember the V10 is basically going to drink gas like poopie guzzles boutique high ABV beer, but I don't really care.
What are your thoughts?
Might be a dumb question but why Excursion and why 4x4? It seems an over kill for a Miata unless you want the space. If you need the space, what about the Suburban, Yukon XL or Escalade ESV?
93EXCivic wrote: If you need the space, what about the Suburban, Yukon XL or Escalade ESV?
This. If the condition of the ones I see for sale, the experience of friends and acquaintances who have owned/own them or have to work on them, and the things that you can read on the intarwebs are at all indicative of the normal ownership experience of the big Fords (Expedition and Excursion), my money goes to the Suburbans. Actually, my money has gone to Suburbans. I'm on my second one.
I've seen quite a few blown up V10s. In the same year range, you could get a 3/4 ton Suburban with the 6.0 or 8.1.
the answer always is retired 7.3L ambulance
Powar wrote: I've seen quite a few blown up V10s. In the same year range, you could get a 3/4 ton Suburban with the 6.0 or 8.1.
That's an interesting thought and something I'm not opposed to. I don't know why I wasn't thinking of the 'Burb.
Any good info on those? 4x4, rated towing capacity, etc?
3/4 ton 'Burb tow ratings are usually in the 8600-9300 lb range, depending on how it is equipped. I would go with a 3/4 ton for the better brakes and suspension and they are often cheaper than the 1/2 ton ones.
I had a 5.4 Expedition and it did an admirable job, it towed to the Challenge, the Mitty and made the trip to Daytona several times.
My trailer weighs 2800 lb, has storage and carries cars up to 4000lbs.
Very few issues once I sorted the PO deferred maintenance issues.
I expected problems with the plugs but with care they came out fine. Replacements last up to 100K.
Sold to our nephew who beats the crap out of it mudding and it still runs fine.
Got around 17 mpg unloaded and 14 loaded.
z31maniac wrote: I'm slowly coming around to the idea of an older tow rig vs a newer F150. The less money I have in the tow rig, the more money I have for tires and track time. There seems to be a huge price spread on these even in relatively similar condition. Tons of space, I could always sleep in it at the track (more money saved). I remember the V10 is basically going to drink gas like poopie guzzles boutique high ABV beer, but I don't really care. What are your thoughts?
While the V10 guzzles fuel, it still does better than the gas v8, and the diesel ones pull insane amounts of money.
FWIW, I thought you were completely opposed to a 3/4-1ton vehicle....
Also, the only blown up v10's I have seen were due to owners who didn't do ANY maintenence to them.....
yamaha wrote:z31maniac wrote: I'm slowly coming around to the idea of an older tow rig vs a newer F150. The less money I have in the tow rig, the more money I have for tires and track time. There seems to be a huge price spread on these even in relatively similar condition. Tons of space, I could always sleep in it at the track (more money saved). I remember the V10 is basically going to drink gas like poopie guzzles boutique high ABV beer, but I don't really care. What are your thoughts?While the V10 guzzles fuel, it still does better than the gas v8, and the diesel ones pull insane amounts of money. FWIW, I thought you were completely opposed to a 3/4-1ton vehicle.... Also, the only blown up v10's I have seen were due to owners who didn't do ANY maintenence to them.....
Not completely opposed, but newer ones are just so much more money than 1/2 tons and/or bare bones.
I'm still not completely sold on the idea of an older, higher mileage tow vehicle that will require more effort in maintenance.........but I'm starting to give it serious thought now.
an experienced note:
It really sucks staring at a truck that'll pull anything but sits in the driveway, still requires maintenance, and costs $20 in gas to drive to the grocery store.
the old f250 I just sold had a 460 and got a consistent 9mpg, loaded or not.
Find what'll work for you and get good gas mileage at the same time. My 97 yukon towed just fine, was fairly cheap to repair and would still get 15-16mpg daily driving.
gofastbobby wrote: an experienced note: It really sucks staring at a truck that'll pull anything but sits in the driveway, still requires maintenance, and costs $20 in gas to drive to the grocery store. the old f250 I just sold had a 460 and got a consistent 9mpg, loaded or not. Find what'll work for you and get good gas mileage at the same time. My 97 yukon towed just fine, was fairly cheap to repair and would still get 15-16mpg daily driving.
The other side of the coin. I tow with a $3000, 460 powered, F350. It gets driven about driven 3500 miles a year, requires virtually no maintenance, it's paid for and I don't have to drive a truck every day. Towing the enclosed it gets about 7mpg, towing the camper it gets about 8. Empty, who knows, it almost never leaves the yard with nothing behind it. I could have bought a $10K-$15K and burned half the fuel, but it would have taken me 7-10 years to break even on total costs.
Then again, a SUV or van doesn't like my enclosed and won't tow the camper.
I would avoid the 99-00 PSD Excursions. The two people I know that have them have dumped tons of money into them to keep them running.
gofastbobby wrote: an experienced note: It really sucks staring at a truck that'll pull anything but sits in the driveway, still requires maintenance, and costs $20 in gas to drive to the grocery store. the old f250 I just sold had a 460 and got a consistent 9mpg, loaded or not. Find what'll work for you and get good gas mileage at the same time. My 97 yukon towed just fine, was fairly cheap to repair and would still get 15-16mpg daily driving.
That's part of my problem. Due to space constraints, the tow rig will also become my daily driver. This is why I'm having such a hard time with which direction to go as I'm not keen on driving a worn out old truck everyday.
In reply to z31maniac:
I would much rather drive a 'Burb daily then an Expedition. From my little bit of searching, the same cost 'Burb or Yukon will be in better shape then a same priced Expedition.
If it is going to be your DD, buy something new or a couple years old......
z31maniac wrote:gofastbobby wrote: an experienced note: It really sucks staring at a truck that'll pull anything but sits in the driveway, still requires maintenance, and costs $20 in gas to drive to the grocery store. the old f250 I just sold had a 460 and got a consistent 9mpg, loaded or not. Find what'll work for you and get good gas mileage at the same time. My 97 yukon towed just fine, was fairly cheap to repair and would still get 15-16mpg daily driving.That's part of my problem. Due to space constraints, the tow rig will also become my daily driver. This is why I'm having such a hard time with which direction to go as I'm not keen on driving a worn out old truck everyday.
In that case, go with something smaller than an Excretion. There is a guy in this region that tows a Miata to hill climbs with a Volvo wagon.
Any of the smaller SUVs should handle it, as long as you don't try to haul the kitchen sink to the track with you. My wife's Liberty is rated at 5000 pounds and gets 17mpg city and 20-22 highway. It drives good, rides fair and has been pretty durable, other than the window regulators that are made out of glass and powered by fairy dust.
z31maniac wrote: That's part of my problem. Due to space constraints, the tow rig will also become my daily driver. This is why I'm having such a hard time with which direction to go as I'm not keen on driving a worn out old truck everyday.
What do you tow, how much does it weigh and how often do you tow it?
Perhaps a tahoe or yukon is a good enough option.
Diesel Ram 1500...
:p
Honestly, if I had to daily drive a truck, it's the only one I could AFFORD to. Realistically, all 1/2 ton trucks have gotten about the same avg mpg since the mid 90's until recently. My civic gets 3 times the city mpg as any truck does.
gofastbobby wrote:z31maniac wrote: That's part of my problem. Due to space constraints, the tow rig will also become my daily driver. This is why I'm having such a hard time with which direction to go as I'm not keen on driving a worn out old truck everyday.What do you tow, how much does it weigh and how often do you tow it? Perhaps a tahoe or yukon is a good enough option.
I'll be amazed if the combo he wants to pull is over 5k lbs......you would have to have the miata filled with water and the trailer frame made out of uranium to get heavier.
If you're only towing a Miata, how often do you do it? Most mid-size SUVs would be able to tow it and will get you high teens mpg while towing and 20's while not. Plus they'd be big enough in back to camp out in.
Not an ideal solution, but I towed our team LeMons car , which weighs about 2300lbs, with my minivan and a tow dolly. Got low 20's mpg and slept plenty comfy in the back at night. If I was going to tow more than a few times per year, I'd probably get an old Suburban...only because it wouldn't be my DD.
^Hopefully 8-10 times per year.
yamaha wrote:gofastbobby wrote:I'll be amazed if the combo he wants to pull is over 5k lbs......you would have to have the miata filled with water and the trailer frame made out of uranium to get heavier.z31maniac wrote: That's part of my problem. Due to space constraints, the tow rig will also become my daily driver. This is why I'm having such a hard time with which direction to go as I'm not keen on driving a worn out old truck everyday.What do you tow, how much does it weigh and how often do you tow it? Perhaps a tahoe or yukon is a good enough option.
From what I've gathered a cheaper wood trailer is going to be ~2200lbs and then about that much or a bit less for the Miata. So call it ~4300.
Then tools/gear/extra sets of wheels/tires.......Probably all in somewhere around 5500 with some on the trailer and some in the vehicle.
Yeah. I've towed that and more with my old Yukon. Both pictures here were more than 600 miles one way to pick up. With the army truck we got 16mpg@60mph towing and the speed3/trailer about 14@70mph. Both trips were enjoyable, even though we went took the skyway through chicago.
My dad now tows his compact tractor around with the yukon. At 240,000miles it still tows great. Here's one of the tractor, yukon and army truck all at work pulling a rock for my brother. The rock had a circumference of about 14ft and stands 7ft tall.
One thing I did, I added a leaf to the spring pack, it helped a lot while towing.
I guess I took the long way around to tell you a Tahoe/Yukon would work just fine for your Miata.
^Well the suggestion (as I've kicked around) to go with a newer truck since it will be a DD, makes me nervous about Chevy.
Apparently there is a not infrequent problem on the V8s with the cylinder shutdown technology? The solenoid goes and dumps oil, and a bunch of other stuff, and the fix is to rebuild with new oil pump, pan, solenoids, pushrods........this happened to my buddies truck earlier this year.
Anyone else know about this? His mechanic basically said get rid of it ASAP, so he did.
z31maniac wrote: Anyone else know about this? His mechanic basically said get rid of it ASAP, so he did.
That is definitely not a thing, at least, not with the new 2014's. Also, in the most recent pickuptrucks.com test, the GM twins got best mpg towing or not loaded, but they do leave a little behind in the all out power category.
Hell, with how much you want to tow, you could easily get away with the 4.3L v6 model. I want to test one towing my race car/trailer (6500lbs all in). Like yourself, I can't really justify a new truck to ONLY tow with, but the 4,3L would get good enough mpg to be able to daily drive, plus they are super common as crew cab 4x4s. PLUS, if I can tow my current setup with a 93 tbi gm with 200,000 miles on it through the mountains, I can't see why the new 4.3L wouldn't do at least as good a job considering the specs.
yamaha wrote: Also, the only blown up v10's I have seen were due to owners who didn't do ANY maintenence to them.....
Not necessarily the case. A friend of mine had a V10 Ex which blew a couple of spark plugs out of the head at around 110K miles. He meticulously maintains his vehicles and the "X" was no different. This is a well-known flaw with the V10, that happens frequently. That said, besides the plug problem, it was a decent vehicle which towed pretty much anything.
The same owner previously had a late 90's Suburban which was a superior machine in nearly every way. He got the "X" as the Suburban ( with small V8) wasn't as good a vehicle to tow his 35 ft. trailer.
Unless you need to tow something massive-- I'd pick a Suburban. YMMV
In reply to Joe Gearin:
Chances are the truck had the plugs overtightened during a tune up. Regardless a $70 Helicoil kit fixes that problem, so I'd hardly call it an issue.
I 2nd the Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban use in this case, but the nineties Suburban is in no way superior to an Excursion.
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