In reply to Driven5 :
If he is not good with a wrench then something newer might actually be a good idea even with debt. People who depend on AAA and dealer service departments instead of their own trailer and expensive tool boxes filed with an endless collection of wrenches and specialized Snap Ons probably can't afford to drive an old car.
In the end it doesn't matter what we think, or anyone else for that matter. The biggest issue is you sound like you have a problem with it. Whether you think this is more than he can afford, or you don't want him living in your house for assumably free while he buys such an item. I don't know your situation, and why he is living at home. You need to have this conversation with him so it doesn't ruin your relationship.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:So my son is flush with money for the first time and instead of the small, fun sort of car or truck that I want him to buy, he's looking at used Hyundai Genesis - circa 2017, circa $17,000. I tell him that they are great cars, but....
-More expensive stuff to break
-Higher insurance rates
-It's a big car and we live in the city, so he's likely to scrape the thing up, being pretty new to driving
-His co-workers are likely to resent this sort of luxury in a guy low on the totem pole. Hell, I'm going to resent him given that he still lives with us!
Please help me out here.
The first two, I can see an argument, but his choice.
The second two are squarely all him. If he wants to spend money on a big car and smack it up, or if he wants to get criticized or scrutinized for his luxo car, that's a lesson he needs to learn. I make $35k/yr, I have a mortgage, pay my own insurance, and work for a non-profit arts organization, so I'm by no means rich. I'm shopping for a Jag XJR. Similar situation. The board (my employers) are all rich folks who drive big luxo Mercedes, Jags, and BMWs. I give zero berkeleys what they think. In fact, it's a bit of a coup. I'll be driving a car that looks like it's in their class, but I will have paid $7000 cash while they paid $130k.
I am not a parent, so please don't mistake this for parenting advice. I have no idea what to say there because I know you are just invested in the happiness and future of your child. I will say (having been a young adult before and a current student of clinical psychology) that for my personality, I learned next to nothing when I followed my parents' advice when they told me "this action will make that response." I always learned when I was able to connect my own choices to the result. I'm 46 and still UN learning old beliefs that I had blindly accepted from others.
Again... not advice, just a psychology student rambling a bit. I would give the same advice if this were a child, a co-worker, friend, uncle, or random stranger. You, personally, might be more sensitive to a dented car, or assumptions that coworkers place on your choice of vehicles. I think that is more something for your son. He will either A) find out the hard way that people scrutinize, B) not care if people scruntinize, C) realize that body work it expensive, D) figure out how to be a more conscious driver, etc.
Either way, I think as a parent/friend/whatever, you would be wise to impart your advice. At least that way, you can say "told you so" instead of THEM saying "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME??!!"
Snowdoggie said:johndej said:In reply to Snowdoggie :
Not equivalent, that's investing in yourself and learning a skill that will offer great returns. This car will never be worth more than what it costs now.
I'm just saying that debt isn't always bad. In fact there are cases where borrowing for a car is better than buying a crappy car and dumping lots of money in repairs on it.
Debt isn't always bad, this is true. But in this particular case it seems like a horrible idea.
The first car I purchased with payments I was 29 and spent about this much money. However, my now ex-wife and I at the time lived in house we "owned," with very stable employment and a combined income of $110k+ per year.
The big problem I see with it, is you get yourself caught up in the debt cycle. That car is going to continue to depreciate faster than he is paying it off, then in a few years when he is tired of it, he'll have to cough up cash to cover the negative equity when he sells or trades it in, or roll over the negative equity into the next car, thus just continuing the cycle.
DrBoost said:I'm just glad non of you guys were my dad.
just offer your advice and guidance. My son wants to make a similar, but less wise purchase. I reminded him of his goal to move out and asked how this purchase would impact his goal. He came to his own decision.
My nephew just started driving. He has a dream of owning a hot Mustang. His budget is a lot smaller, but he is drooling over the last year of the 5.0L and he really wants all the horsepowers. My sister (his mom) enlisted me to help talk him out of it. My first words to my Nephew were, "did you check craigslist?"
Ok, not really. We did present our suggestions and he is now looking for a clean, newer V6 that he could V8 swap later. But it was HIS choice.
In reply to z31maniac :
I always buy them and keep them forever. Never trade them in. I still have the Jeep XJ I bought in the 90s. But what do I know? I paid cash for my last car. They still made me go to the finance manager to write him a check and pull out my debit card to pay the tax and license. They didn't know what else to do.
Big cars rule. But Hyundai's suck. Tell him all the hot chicks dig Ford Crown Vics.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
Hot chicks dig old vans with shag carpet, beanbag chairs and waterbeds. And they really dig guys who live in those vans down by the river.
The Genesis is a great car. Like so many other entries into the luxury market (the S-Class of the 80's, the original Lexus LS400, the early Acura Legend) it was over-engineered and over-built. They wanted to make sure that their reputation was not tarnished by quality issues, and they sit at the top of the JD Power survey for 2020, so mission accomplished. I have a friend who is a national service advisor for Hyundai and he loves the Genesis brand and has nothing but good things to say about the cars. So its a good, solid, reliable car at a good price compared to the competition.
On top of that, it is new enough that it isn't going to nickel and dime him to death like some old clunker with 150,000 miles. He will have regular monthly payments, but hew won't be hit with big, surprise bills after being stranded on the side of the road somewhere. He will also be safer than in a rusted-out Miata or Civic.
OK, he can't wrench on it and it won't be any good at an autocross, but if those things were important to him, he would not be looking at a Genesis. (The OP never mentioned the coupe, which could conceivably do both). Kids want different things in vehicles these days, it that's his passion, so be it.
Is $18k too much for an 18-year old to spend on a car? Depends on the percentage of his wages and savings he is using. If he is living at home and making minimum wage, it is not a sound financial decision. But who said we have to make sound financial decisions when we are 18? Maybe he enjoys it for a few years then sells it for a good price? Maybe he puts 200,000 miles on it and pushes it to the junkyard? Maybe he learns the value of hard work because he has expensive tastes and wanted a nice car and winds up the next Warren Buffet? Or Jimmy Buffet?
Explain what happens if it is totaled. Explain financing and repossession and debt. Explain depreciation and repair costs. If he still wants to do it, let him live his life.
My first car loan when I was 22YO, was for around $12k on a 97' GTP. It felt like forever paying it off, it felt crippling when just a few years after getting that loan I was trying to buy a house, getting married and shortly had a kid on the way. Debt you can handle when life circumstances change, not what you can afford at the time, but what you can continue afford later, is a smarter financial choice.
Snowdoggie said:In reply to 1988RedT2 :
Hot chicks dig old vans with shag carpet, beanbag chairs and waterbeds. And they really dig guys who live in those vans down by the river.
Thanks! Noted!
I am with the people on debt. I took out my first car loan when I was too ignorant to know what that would mean for my financial standing, did the same thing with credit cards. I was in my late 20's before I finally realized it was a dead end path. I am now in a pretty good financial position and I still drive one low dollar car (SWMBO drives a new but reasonable CRV). The ease in life of not having to make payments to maintain your lifestyle is priceless. I can't wait to feel what the grass feels like when I pay off the house. I would ask him to read the Total Money Makeover, by Dave Ramsey and then let him do what he wanted.
NYN
In reply to New York Nick :
If I had followed Dave Ramsey's advice I never would have owned a house.
The one I shouldn't have bought will be paid for in less than four years.
Has he ever ridden in a BiTurbo??
I don't see where the OP mentioned his son's age, and we don't know anything more about his financial situation other than he's 'flush with money' which could mean all kinds of things depending on the person.. If he's 18 or older and out on his own all you can do is give him your opinion, but the final decision is up to him. I did a search online and the 2017 Genesis's I found were selling for $22k and up, so $17k sounds like a good price. As for what his co-workers think, unless it's a red Ferrari or a gold plated Rolls-Royce or something, does anyone really pay attention to what kind of cars are out in the company parking lot? While a Genesis is a nice car, it will blend in with all the other vehicles and I doubt anyone will know the difference.
In 1980 (the year after I got out of college) I bought a new car with a $6k loan, which is pretty comparable to a $17k loan in today's money. I paid it off without any issues and am still alive today, so it can be done.
Olemiss540 said:Has he ever ridden in a BiTurbo??
Has anyone ever actually ridden in a BiTurbo?
A car in the city is going to get beat to E36 M3. Potholes, bashed bumpers, paint scrapes, door dings. It will eat that car alive. I'd hate to have any car guy watch his baby get destroyed.
So you never get into debt.
So you drive sensible cheap cars like Camrys and Civics.
So you save all your money and invest it.
So you call Dave on the air every Friday night and he tells you he is proud that you are debt free.
So you never own or drive a really good sports car.
So you never learn to fly an airplane.
So you never own a boat and get the spray of water in your face on a good warm day at the lake.
So you never go dogsledding in Alaska.
So you never go to Europe to see what older civilizations are like.
So you never ride a motorcycle up to 100 mph with the wind in your face.
So you never taste a really good single malt scotch.
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And when you die of a heart attack and leave all that money to your family, they have a big wake and buy the expensive booze you never tasted.
Then blow through your money because money not earned means nothing to them.
So sad.
My thoughts:
1) Ask the "5 whys" so you understand why he wants the Genesis. That will help understand the next step.
2)Once you understand the "why", then you can have an informed discussion about pros and cons of the genesis, and also alternative choices that might fit the bill. Maybe a G35/37 or other car might fit the reasons with a lower price point.
3) If he's going with the Genesis explore the cost for it to be certified so he can get the remainder of the 10yr/100k warranty. It may add $1-2k to the cost but it's insurance. That will reduce the risk of having a payment on a non-running car or getting stuck with a major repair bill.
A lot to think on. As someone with a working class background who had to plow through a pile of POS cars before I got one worth a damn, I have to be honest about my own biases. My son didn't grow up poor, didn't have a single mother followed by a step-dad who terrified him. He has higher expectations than I did at that age, and high expectations aren't necessarily a bad thing.
On the other hand, supporting him with room and board while he drives a pimping car is allowing him to live in a fantasy world, which isn't a good thing. It may cause a fight, but I'm thinking of saying something along the lines of "If you can afford to own a car like that, you can afford to start paying your share of the family expenses".
A Hyundai is a pimping car now?? Not a Mercedes or a BMW. Not a Corvette or a Porsche.
A Hyundai is what kids aspire to today??
Wow. How far we have fallen.
Sure sounds like a "no" or "pay rent" situation. Sure he can buy that car but, "we as your parents" aren't going to be charitable for long if you decide to buy "that car". I was there when I was younger.... it took me a bit longer to have something nicer.
I like the Lexus GS suggestion, but he'll get just as much crap for driving a less expensive luxury car as he would the Genesis. The guys I worked with teased me endlessly about my old ES300 when most of them had spent several times more on newer trucks. It looks like the Genesis has the potential to be a relatively reliable car, but I'd also be pushing for something less expensive for the inevitable "when" the car gets damaged.
The insurance is pretty obscene on the Genesis branded stuff too. I have a relatively clean record with good credit, and was quoted over double what I was paying on my Elantra Sport to insure a nice CPO Genesis.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:On the other hand, supporting him with room and board while he drives a pimping car is allowing him to live in a fantasy world, which isn't a good thing. It may cause a fight, but I'm thinking of saying something along the lines of "If you can afford to own a car like that, you can afford to start paying your share of the family expenses".
Would your perception of "afford a car like that" change if it was simply a new econo/penalty box instead?...Keeping it in the family, let's say a $17k Accent or Rio.
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Assuming his living there is not putting any financial strain on you, it really comes down to two questions to me:
1) Does his income exceed the total expenses he would reasonably be facing living on his own. This includes car payment, rent, utilities, insurance, gas, phone, groceries, eating out, entertainment, alcohol, etc.?
2) Is he saving the full amount from each above noted item that you're providing him at no-charge?
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If yes to both, I see no problem with his car/life choices and would continue to allow him living rent free for 6mo-1yr as he responsibly prepares to leave the nest and fly out on his own.
If no to #2, it's time to pay his fair share...Meaning enough to encourage him to change it to a yes, or to simply choose to move out anyway.
If no to #1, he's not actually 'flush with money'. It's time to pay a reasonable (somewhat painful) share as he works to change it to a yes...Which should also be enough to make the car as unattainable as it realistically is. Depending on his motivations and ethic, some or all of the share he pays may electively be saved to return to him as a future gift.
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