Snowdoggie said:Wasn't Genesis taken from an old Star Trek movie?
Or, some other book.
Oops. Unintended error with mod powers. In an attempt to add the quip about the other book, I did not realize that I was erasing your words.
It was not intended. Sorry.
"Tell me why my son should 't buy this car."
Knowing all the pitfalls or reasons not to buy it - have your son calmly and methodically explain why he wants it. If he presents a logical case; ; let it happen.
This is how we learn.
Honestly it's his life and choices... That being said. Do NOT bail him out if things go sideways on him. Learning the hard way is my vote.
I had 2 cheap vehicles through highschool and college then moved and bought a house at 20. I very quickly realized that just a house payment and associated expenses quickly cripple you into barely getting by with "fun" money to spare. Key learning here: Don't buy what the bank says you can afford.....buy way, way below that.
As for a car suggestion: Ford Fusion. I have a 2007 and it is so incredibly cheap to own I can't sell it for something more "fun". Its as luxurious as my 2004 Super duty Lariat, pretty good on gas, good power with the V6, dirt cheap insurance (something like $145 for 6 months), and very low maintenance costs. Purchased for $4000, have had for 7-8 years now, under $200 in maintenance not counting oil changes and tires. Had 133,xxx when purchased, now has 199,xxx and still perfectly reliable. I daily it to work and just went to TX from MN back in Feb.
John Welsh (Moderate Supporter) said:Snowdoggie said:Wasn't Genesis taken from an old Star Trek movie?
Or, some other book.
Oops. Unintended error with mod powers. In an attempt to add the quip about the other book, I did not realize that I was erasing your words.
It was not intended. Sorry.
Then there was the Hyundai Moses SUV. Drives across rivers you wouldn't even attempt with a Jeep Wrangler or the New Bronco.
In reply to DWNSHFT:
The OP never asked for pros. Only cons. The tone doesn't come across as the tongue-in-cheek code for 'enable me' either, which indicates looking more for confirmation bias than a fair and balanced analysis. It would also seem that the 'how much', or perhaps the psychological perception there of, might actually be the bigger issue than any real concerns about the car itself.
While it might have more electronic features and a 'pretty nice stereo', it also has more ways to keep his eyes on the road within many of those same electronic features. Steering wheel audio controls, steering wheel call controls, hands-free calling, talk-to text, text reading, GPS voice controls, etc. It's not like he wouldn't still be changing music selection and volume, taking and making calls, taking and making texts, and using GPS in a cheap POS either.
While the cheapest examples are all RWD, AWD is available with the base engine as well. And with the base 3.8L V6 engine presumably under consideration, it has a power to weight ratio not much better than my minivan...So not exactly a hoon-mobile rocketship.
Coming back to this.
There is nothing wrong with him having this car, or frankly any car that you trust him not to kill someone in. The car is fine. Awesome even. But there is a lot wrong with him spending this much on any depreciating asset, assuming that his net worth is less than $100k.
He is flush with cash. Why is he flush with cash? Is it because he's saved all his rubles, or because he got a windfall of some sort? If it is a windfall, this is an even worse idea. But if it is because he's saved his rubles, it is time to sit down with him and teach him about personal finance. My kid is only 6 months old. I'm not a teacher. I'm not a financial professional. But this is how I would do it:
If you want me to put some actual analysis to this, send me a PM with his income and I'll throw it into a spreadsheet to see just how impactful this purchase would be downstream.
I haven't seen for sure how old this kid is although I've seen people say 18. First thing you need to do is show your son the depreciation rate on this car and what the total cost/month will be. He needs to be paying rent if still living at home, even if you bank it and give back to him when he is ready to move out.
my first car was a 56 VW convertible that I paid $395 for it. My father had to co-sign because I was 15. But he made me dress up and go to the back with him and ask for th money. Payments were $22/month. It seems like I paid on it forever, but tried to sell it when we came across and 61 hardtop. I finally got the corporate pilot for the company my father worked for to take it for payoff of $200. He towed it back to VA and had the generator repaired for $10 and drove it daily. His previous DD was a 69 Vette with a 427 3 deuce engine. He starting paying for gas out of his pocket instead of using a credit card and Gulf Oil called to see if he had passed away. (Back when oil companies issued their own credit cards)
mtn (Forum Supporter) said:But there is a lot wrong with him spending this much on any depreciating asset, assuming that his net worth is less than $100k.
I can't say that I agree with this statement. If he keeps it long enough and/or for enough miles, the benefits to the individual may actually be well worth the amortized cost of ownership difference. The first car I bought was $16k, but in 20 years ago dollars. While there may have been 'better' options from a purely financial standpoint, I have never once regretted that purchase, nor has it been even the slightest hindrance in achieving my financial goals.
It's more about the pattern and the person, than it is about the purchase and the price. For one person with decent patterns, it may be a decent purchase at a decent price. For another person with poor patterns, it may be a poor purchase at an poor price. So far we have zero patternable data points that can be used to determine the relative quality of the purchase/price for this particular person.
I do agree that the best way to do this is to run the numbers as if he was out on his own, and have him learn what it takes to make the hard decisions for prioritizing the value of where his hard earned money goes.
mtn (Forum Supporter) said:Coming back to this.
There is nothing wrong with him having this car, or frankly any car that you trust him not to kill someone in. The car is fine. Awesome even. But there is a lot wrong with him spending this much on any depreciating asset, assuming that his net worth is less than $100k.
Is this really a thing?
If I sold everything I owned. I mean every berkeleying thing, every car, tool, piece of furniture, clothing, watch, and electronic device. I'd maybe make $16k. Add that to my annual salary and I still wouldn't be worth $100k net.
I was just browsing a 2016 Expedition for $23k.
Guess I better close that internet tab 
yupididit said:mtn (Forum Supporter) said:Coming back to this.
There is nothing wrong with him having this car, or frankly any car that you trust him not to kill someone in. The car is fine. Awesome even. But there is a lot wrong with him spending this much on any depreciating asset, assuming that his net worth is less than $100k.
Is this really a thing?
If I sold everything I owned. I mean every berkeleying thing, every car, tool, piece of furniture, clothing, watch, and electronic device. I'd maybe make $16k. Add that to my annual salary and I still wouldn't be worth $100k net.
I was just browsing a 2016 Expedition for $23k.
Guess I better close that internet tab
Only if getting fired and then never having another source of income for the rest of your life is in the cards.
z31maniac said:Snowdoggie said:So you never get into debt.
So you drive sensible cheap cars like Camrys and Civics.
So you save all your money and invest it.
So you call Dave on the air every Friday night and he tells you he is proud that you are debt free.
So you never own or drive a really good sports car.
So you never learn to fly an airplane.
So you never own a boat and get the spray of water in your face on a good warm day at the lake.
So you never go dogsledding in Alaska.
So you never go to Europe to see what older civilizations are like.
So you never ride a motorcycle up to 100 mph with the wind in your face.
So you never taste a really good single malt scotch.
---------------------------------------------------------------
And when you die of a heart attack and leave all that money to your family, they have a big wake and buy the expensive booze you never tasted.
Then blow through your money because money not earned means nothing to them.
So sad.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that level of militancy, I know I'm not because I typically say in these threads "If your job is stable and you could find similar compensation if something happened, and if you're retirement and savings goals won't be impacted BUY IT."
And for the exact same reasons you mentioned. But as also has been mentioned, we really don't know enough. Most of us I think, myself included, just assumed "son, living at home" and made a certain set of assumptions.
I was using my own experience of not living with my parents since I left for college at 18. But you have to keep in mind, I also bought a sportbike in college with no job and lets say I wouldn't put that stuff on a credit app now.
Got a good co-op (RIT, right)? 
<- class of '06
yupididit said:mtn (Forum Supporter) said:Coming back to this.
There is nothing wrong with him having this car, or frankly any car that you trust him not to kill someone in. The car is fine. Awesome even. But there is a lot wrong with him spending this much on any depreciating asset, assuming that his net worth is less than $100k.
Is this really a thing?
If I sold everything I owned. I mean every berkeleying thing, every car, tool, piece of furniture, clothing, watch, and electronic device. I'd maybe make $16k. Add that to my annual salary and I still wouldn't be worth $100k net.
I was just browsing a 2016 Expedition for $23k.
Guess I better close that internet tab
Retirement accounts and investment accounts?
That was a poorly written sentence, and not accurate... and I’m working on a bunch of assumptions. But ultimately he is still on mom and dad’s paycheck. He’s probably not paying for anything right now.
Is he going to have subsidized food and housing for the foreseeable future? (That’d be Mom and dad or the military) Is he going to pay for college? Downpayment on a house? What about invest in a business? Emergency fund? Or even just his retirement?
Definitely there are situations where I’d say, yeah, sure. But from what I’ve learned here, this isn’t one of them.
In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :
Everything we actually (no assumptions) know about him also once applied to me, including taking out my first car loan while living rent free under my parents roof. The way my parents and I did it ultimately served as a very effective springboard into independent adulthood for me...But the devil is in the details that are not included here..
It's not that he lives rent free with his parents, but rather how he lives rent free with his parents that makes all the difference in the world...And is something which simply cannot be assumed.
I don't know... that's not that much more expensive (adjusted for inflation) than the used Acura Integra I bought when I was 26, still living at home and not quite a year into my first job in the corporate world. It hasn't seemed to hurt me any.
That said, if his job has a 401k, tell him to max out the contributions NOW. Then figure out how "flush with cash" he is. While I did put a fair amount of my income into my 401k when I was younger, I wish I'd put in more.
I'm old enough to remember gas company issued credit cards, but I don't think I ever had one. Hell, I still have two of the first three CCs I've ever had (pretty sure my Sears CC is defunct).
yupididit said:mtn (Forum Supporter) said:Coming back to this.
There is nothing wrong with him having this car, or frankly any car that you trust him not to kill someone in. The car is fine. Awesome even. But there is a lot wrong with him spending this much on any depreciating asset, assuming that his net worth is less than $100k.
Is this really a thing?
If I sold everything I owned. I mean every berkeleying thing, every car, tool, piece of furniture, clothing, watch, and electronic device. I'd maybe make $16k. Add that to my annual salary and I still wouldn't be worth $100k net.
I was just browsing a 2016 Expedition for $23k.
Guess I better close that internet tab
You're a military man. Go get that sweet charger for 23% apr and slap a monster sticker on the back window
Something that people who do not have garages and a full set of tools have to consider is that it can be really hard to do your own work without that stuff. Getting to work trumps driving a beater, saving loads of money, and NOT getting to work. Does OP's kid *need* this car? Nah, but the difference between a 16k 48 month loan at 3.5% and the same at 10k is $125/month. It's something but it's not huge.
The smart play for the money is a Prius with 100k +\-. Those can be found under 10k all day long, but not everyone wants one.
While I don't think the Genesis is the smartest play I also don't see it as the trailhead to the path of ruin.
I'm not sure if this has been said or not but:
I think coaching him that the total purchase price of the car includes:
So, spending all of the money you have on the car itself leaves zero dollars for the other stuff. He ought to buy a car and leave enough money left over to handle the other two.
The car and the price are fine. The Genesis is a good car. The price is pretty reasonable.
The question really comes down to situational factors like financial security and whether a kid that's being subsidized by his parents should be buying a $17k vehicle. OP's going to have to figure that out on his own since he knows the details.
Have we figured out how old he is?
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) said:I'm not sure if this has been said or not but:
I think coaching him that the total purchase price of the car includes:
- 1. The car itself
- 2. Insurance for as long as you own the car
- 3. Maintenance for as long as you own the car.
So, spending all of the money you have on the car itself leaves zero dollars for the other stuff. He ought to buy a car and leave enough money left over to handle the other two.
And 4. Gas/fuel (electricity, diesel, etc) Unless you considered that part of maintenance.
In reply to jfryjfry (Forum Supporter) :
Yeah, we could probably make it two points:
1. The cost of the car itself
2. Operating costs for the car, including insurance, fuel, tires, brakes, maintenance, etc.
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
My kids have a choice. School, or rent. TANSTAAFL
My 20 yo son just dropped $700 on a phone. I didn't say a word because it's his money. He lives at home still, but he pays $400 a month in room and board. Pays his own car insurance and phone bill. The car he bought was also $2900.
This is ultimately exactly where I fall.
I wasn't allowed to buy a car with my own money. My parents wouldn't let me. I was 18. Blah blah blah, I'm an adult... But I wasn't. I didn't have one. single. expense. Not a one. My parents paid for everything. I paid for college. If I was going to spend it on a depreciating asset, they'd have stopped subisidizing me.
In reply to bobzilla :
The G80 is a lot of car for 17k. Not a bad choice for the segment.
I don't have kids and likely never will, but if I did, I'd be psyched if they were looking for good deals on luxury sedans that have already taken that deprecation hit, instead of spending all the newfound cash on sneakers and limited-edition supreme hoodies and video games and in app purchases or whatever dumb trash kids are into these days. You may not understand why a young person would want the sedan bodystyle, but look at the automotive landscape—big body luxury sedans are on the chopping block.
Like others have said, if money isn't coming in, and/or this is depleting all savings/a one time windfall, it's not a smart call. But if employment is stable, and he can afford to insure it, why not? It's reliable, nice, and since he's spending his own money on it maybe he'll take good care of it.
P.S. - Not a single person on this board makes good financial automotive decisions and if they think they do, they're delusional. Or they're not posting anything. Or they mis-typed whatever URL they really wanted and ended up here by mistake. 
ebelements saidP.S. - Not a single person on this board makes good financial automotive decisions and if they think they do, they're delusional. Or they're not posting anything. Or they mis-typed whatever URL they really wanted and ended up here by mistake.
Shoot, I thought I was on the beige sedans forum.
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