Tesla model 3

DWNSHFT wrote: So Tesla just borrowed $130 million for 18 months (or longer) at 0% interest with no covenants to protect the lenders? Zero protection in bankruptcy court, and no collateral. While I very much doubt Tesla's ability to manufacture cars profitably, their ability to manipulate the government and, now, their customers is genius.

It's almost as if there is profit in making desirable things.

Knurled wrote:

DWNSHFT wrote: So Tesla just borrowed $130 million for 18 months (or longer) at 0% interest with no covenants to protect the lenders? Zero protection in bankruptcy court, and no collateral. While I very much doubt Tesla's ability to manufacture cars profitably, their ability to manipulate the government and, now, their customers is genius.

It's almost as if there is profit in making desirable things.

I plan to reserve one next year, maybe sooner...

Can I complain about the lack of a wagon version yet?

No?

OK. I'll wait.

Wow!!! Tesla has a winner if for no other reason than this many GRMers want to buy a new car.

According to Musk: we know this so far -

• Targeted Cd: 0.21
• Dual Motor: under $5000 option
• Seats will fold flat
• Trunk rather than hatchback dictated by rear cross-pillar for safety.
• Metal roof, Sunroof, and full glass roof will all be options
• Front end is not the final design

There were 276,000 preorders by the end of 4/2/16.

bastomatic wrote: According to Musk: we know this so far - - Targeted Cd: 0.21 - Dual Motor: under $5000 option - Seats will fold flat - Trunk rather than hatchback dictated by rear cross-pillar for safety. - Metal roof, Sunroof, and full glass roof will all be options - Front end is not the final design There were 276,000 preorders by the end of 4/2/16.

That is 90% of what Mazda sold in the US for the entire 2014 year, and that was their best sales year in 20 years!!!!!

It's pretty crazy there are that many people willing to put down $1000 for a car they have not driven and does not yet really exist. Tesla said it was 4x the number they predicted.

Knurled wrote: It's almost as if there is profit in making desirable things.

But Tesla's cars are not profitable (last I read). They turn a profit selling federal emissions credits. Without the support of government programs, Tesla is not profitable.

DWNSHFT wrote:

Knurled wrote: It's almost as if there is profit in making desirable things.

But Tesla's cars are not profitable (last I read). They turn a profit selling federal emissions credits. Without the support of government programs, Tesla is not profitable.

A large part of this Model 3 approach, is the battery GigaFactory Tesla is finishing. In theory, the larger scale battery production (and vehicle production) should be able to drive production costs down, and clearly, there's a market for a cheaper all electric vehicle. Lower production costs, and plenty of demand/sales volume should increase profitability. I'm assuming the cheaper batteries will also find their way into other Tesla models, but I doubt there would be a corresponding price drop, so profitability goes up on other fronts simultaneously. Of course theory and practice can be 2 very different things.

In reply to DWNSHFT:

That's not technically true. The profit margin of the Model S and X is reported to be about 30% for each car they sell. But the company has been spending money on very expensive long-term projects like the Gigafactory, Model 3, Supercharger network, showrooms. The company itself hasn't posted a profit, but the cars themselves are said to be profitable.

bastomatic wrote: - Front end is not the final design

Good! I think their only options are a faux grille or an RX8-looking front end for that kind of inlet size. Either can work.

GameboyRMH wrote:

bastomatic wrote: - Front end is not the final design

Good! I think their only options are a faux grille or an RX8-looking front end for that kind of inlet size. Either can work.

I hope they keep the front end as is, it works on the Model X...

Here's one alternative render I've seen making the rounds.

And another.

The bottom one with the logo is pretty sharp

It isn't a good looking car, but I will still consider one (and am still considering the Bolt). I won't be buying until 2018 at the earliest anyway.

I wonder now though, if you put your name on the list when would you actually see a car assuming they start delivering them when they say they will (which they don't have a good track record of doing). I also saw Elon Musk tweeted that your reservation is based on region, so if you are #300,000 overall, but only #1,000 in your region you might not have to wait as long as someone who was #200,000 but #10,000 in their region. Take that all with a grain of salt, but it is food for thought.

camaroz1985 wrote: It isn't a good looking car, but I will still consider one (and am still considering the Bolt). I won't be buying until 2018 at the earliest anyway. I wonder now though, if you put your name on the list when would you actually see a car assuming they start delivering them when they say they will (which they don't have a good track record of doing). I also saw Elon Musk tweeted that your reservation is based on region, so if you are #300,000 overall, but only #1,000 in your region you might not have to wait as long as someone who was #200,000 but #10,000 in their region. Take that all with a grain of salt, but it is food for thought.

You're right it isn't a good looking, its a GORGEOUS CAR!

Carry on

bastomatic wrote: In reply to DWNSHFT: That's not technically true. The profit margin of the Model S and X is reported to be about 30% for each car they sell. But the company has been spending money on very expensive long-term projects like the Gigafactory, Model 3, Supercharger network, showrooms. The company itself hasn't posted a profit, but the cars themselves are said to be profitable.

So they're plowing profits back into the business... oh no

It'll be interesting to see conversion rates. Also, I wonder what the reservations by country looks like.

Places like Norway do massive tax incentives for EV's where it totally makes sense for a Tesla. It's almost 50% less than an equivalent. Most of the EV tax credit in Europe will expire by the first year of Model 3 production.

Knurled wrote:

bastomatic wrote: In reply to DWNSHFT: That's not technically true. The profit margin of the Model S and X is reported to be about 30% for each car they sell. But the company has been spending money on very expensive long-term projects like the Gigafactory, Model 3, Supercharger network, showrooms. The company itself hasn't posted a profit, but the cars themselves are said to be profitable.

So they're plowing profits back into the business... oh no

So... if you don't count the investments required to improve and continue the business, it's not really measuring profit, right?

I mean, basically any company can say "Hey if we ignore costs X, Y and Z, we're wildly profitable!!"

Oddly, it's the first vehicle that I have really wanted in a long time. Mostly because it addresses all the issues I have with most other EVs. It has a decent overall charge range. It accelerates very quickly (or at least quick) and it actually looks really good, sort of grown up and sexy. I never could understand why so many EVs look like they came out of a Dr. Suess book...... especially the Leaf. Or they look frumpy and ugly with bad proportions.....Insight, Prius, GM EV etc. Or they just slap an Electric power plant in an existing platform/body like the SouI, Focus, Golf etc. Just amazing stuff how well this has been received.

An interesting business-take on the Model 3 and profitability:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/why-detroit-isnt-freaking-out-about-the-tesla-model-3/ar-BBrkukL?li=BBnbfcN&ocid=iehp

I agree it's a good looking car, but I really have a personal problem with 4-door sedans. I just don't like them in general.

M2Pilot wrote: ...$7500 tax credit ends when 200,000 have been sold & latest figures I saw had approx. 135,000 reserved. Gettin in while the gittins good.

I think this is going to be a big deal. Most (all?) of the people reserving a spot have already mentally subtracted out the tax credit. From what I read, the "200,000" unit number is manufacturer total. If true it'll likely mean that no Model 3 buyer will see the credit due to Tesla having already exceeded the magic number by the time they're being sold.

Elon tweeted that there is a "second big reveal" coming, so is this car autonomous....is that why the dash and steering wheel are unpolished?

At this price point and for the intended market, I'm not sure the tax credit will be a decided factor for most buyers.

I think all the comments about Tesla making money are kind of missing the point of 'Why did Elon Musk risk the sinking of most/all of his fortune into these companies in the first place?'.

If Tesla 'only' sells the number of cars it has deposits for and then folds, it will have already accomplished what it was set out to do as a company, and Elon Musk in all likelihood will still be wealthy.

It's sad that what Tesla is doing is so far outside the 'normal 'Murrican way' of doing things that people have trouble even understanding it.