Tesla Model S

Crikey! Not to go off on a tangent, but I didn't know about the electric Focus, or at least it hadn't gotten my attention. That lease doesn't sound bad, but the MSRP is right there with a Volt!?

I've seen two here in Denver recently. They're good looking cars, but for $100k I'd pick something else.

In reply to ransom: Sounds like they're way overstocked and figure that it's better to get the cars on the road at a loss than hold onto them at a bigger loss. They also need to get enough cars out there to generate word-of-mouth. At this point, practically everyone admits that cost and politics aside, the Volt is a great car. But the cars had to be common enough for unbiased users to generate that buzz.

Here's an interesting thread on the Electric Focus:

Electric Focus purchase

Ford is discounting the 2013 electric Focus by up to $10,750 for leases.

ReverendDexter wrote: I really like the Model S, I'd buy one if I could afford it, and I would be really happy to see Tesla succeed. It'd be a nice middle-finger to the existent corporate policy that green has to equal boring-to-drive.

that existent corporate policy is based on green = hippie = poor, and also that grip = high rolling resistance = inefficient.

i will just sit over here in the corner and observe the annual sales numbers...

In reply to AngryCorvair:

The Frisbreez are proof that fun-to-drive doesn't necessarily have to mean high coefficient of grip. They put Prius tires on those things for a reason.

A CR-Z Si would do the job. Hell, they have five different Prii now, why not a Prius GT-S? Take the Prius C body, stiffen up and balance out the suspension, and put some aggressive lobes in a VVTL-i head. Don't even need to swap out the CVT, just give it a performance setting where it does what it can to keep the motor at peak power output rather than maximum efficiency.

Dashpot wrote:

JoeyM wrote: I wonder how many people remember that the company has a history of doing this (...and thus, annoying customers.) My guess is that up until you have the car in hand, they will change the price as they see fit.

Why so negative? They offer the car in 2 trims, priced accordingly - just like everybody else.

It appears that you're right about the 'S'. Maybe they learned their lesson after they got egg in their face in 2009. From the link above:

There's a firestorm of controversy surrounding the Tesla Roadster and its most recent set of options and pricing details. Apparently, a number of Roadster reservation holders who had already placed hefty deposits (as much as $50,000 dollars) on the Tesla, had locked in their orders and picked their options recently received letters and phone calls informing them that they were unlocked from their orders and their spot in the line was in jeopardy if they didn't re-option their rides. What's more, the new set of choices included many pricey bits that had previously been standard, along with a price increase for options that were already available.

I hope tesla makes it. Getting a little side tracks I looked at the new zmax ford thing the other way and I liked it. I just wish they would remove all the crap from it. All the electronic gee whiz stuff is just not for me. I really wish they had one with an XLT package. That in the ford truck's was always my favorite option package. Bonus if it included the optional towing package but I don't think that is an option on the zmax

Chris_V wrote:

irish44j wrote:

kreb wrote: - that your eco-models needn't look like something the librarian dragged in.

one can hope. Right now it seems that they are required to make it as dorky looking as possible, so everyone knows you're driving an electric car. Make one that performs well and looks identical to a "normal" car (like a Hyundai Sonata or something) and I would start thinking about it.

Couple things, you can get electric "normal cars." The lease rate on a new Focus electric is about $200 a month if you are serious about buying an electric car that looks normal. And even then, the Focus, even in non-electric form, follows the Kamm effect shaping: Second thing is, we know that the Kamm effect bodystyle is the most aerodynamically efiicient form for a car, and that's what the Prius, Insight, and even the Volt use as their form factor. All are truncated teardrops when viewed from both plan and elevation. I personally like the looks of my Volt ad don't think it looks "dorky" at all.

I actually think the Volt looks much better than any of the other EVs. That said, it looks distinctive....nobody will mistake it for a "normal car."

Even that Focus does NOT look like a normal focus, at least in my eyes.

I would look first at an EV that gives absolutely no sign that it is anything other than a regular gas-powered car.

But I'd look at a diesel first.

Full disclosure, I love the Tesla Model S, even though I've never seen one in real life, let alone driven one. If I won the Lotto today, that is the car I would buy first. Yes, even before an AMC or a Ferrari (which would be #2 and #3).

Musk is a man that knows how to make a business work (PayPal, Space-X), and Tesla is already forecasting profit. The capabilities are amazing, and the design looks gorgeous.

I hope he makes it, too....and not just for the green-car aspect of it. I'd love to see another US car company.

This doesn't change history, though....even Revenge of the electric car talks about the pricing revision. There are customers who were understanding (the company needed more money to survive) and there are customers who thought they got a raw deal.

Sorry for the hijack, but I sent an e-mail to the local Ford dealer. his reponse:

"We have our first unit in production now--eta is approximately 45 days away."

Car dealers - treating people like idiots for 100 years and counting.....

They're freaking everywhere in LA now. I had to drive across Hollywood, Beverly Hills and Century City today and I saw like six of them.

My advisor bought one.

The gasoline performance car might soon be a vinyl record in a CD world.

Zero accelerator delay, no need to downshift, just instant traction-limited acceleration all the way to 55 followed by a slow rolloff of force. It would make a pretty good fairgrounds ride.

chaparral wrote: My advisor bought one. The gasoline performance car might soon be a vinyl record in a CD world.

Internal combustion cars will last longer just because cars are a bigger investment. People will re-purchase an album they had on vinyl to get it in a more modern format. People won't repurchase a car or SUV just because one with a newer drivetrain is available.

I've seen 2 now on my commute. I also found out that they are selling them in a mall here (suburbs of Chicago-Oak Brook mall). I wonder how well they cope with stop-and-go traffic... does all the starting and stopping reduce the battery life like it does gas mileage on a regular car?

Tesla is reporting Q1 being profitable. They have delivered 4700 cars now, and are on track to delivering 20,000 this year (to compare, there have been 36,000 Volts delivered). I've had a chance to spend some time looking over a top model Tesla S and they are serious cars, well built and look like real production cars, unlike the Fisker. I'd really love to replace my Volt with a Tesla at the end of it's lease...

And no, slowride, start/stop traffic doesn't reduce battery life, In fact, that's where an EV is most efficient vs a gasser.

slowride wrote: I've seen 2 now on my commute. I also found out that they are selling them in a mall here (suburbs of Chicago-Oak Brook mall). I wonder how well they cope with stop-and-go traffic... does all the starting and stopping reduce the battery life like it does gas mileage on a regular car?

The acceleration portion of driving uses more energy than steady state no matter what type of vehicle you drive. The reasons electrics/hybrids excel in this area are that they waste no energy idling while stopped, have better efficiency than an ICE in all states of driving than an ICE, and they have braking energy recapture (regen).

Saw one in Knoxville the other morning. Took me a while figure out what it was.

I just realized that there was one of these in the parking garage here at work this morning- and it was plugged in. I'd seen a Tesla coupe in the same spot a few times before... I wonder if it's the same owner, or they just have that spot set up for EV charging.

Frankly, the fact that they have an EV charging station in my parking garage is a lot more surprising to me than the car itself...

Makes sense. Thanks guys!

Ashyukun wrote: I just realized that there was one of these in the parking garage here at work this morning- and it was plugged in. I'd seen a Tesla coupe in the same spot a few times before... I wonder if it's the same owner, or they just have that spot set up for EV charging. Frankly, the fact that they have an EV charging station in my parking garage is a lot more surprising to me than the car itself...

I just realized that it's a clever way that EV makers can claim that the operating cost is less than an IC car - charge the car away from home and don't pay for the electricity.

Does anyone have input on claimed vs. actual range?

Also, a lot of electric cars claim x.x 0-60 times, but what they don't mention is the required cool-down period. Any such restrictions with this one?

Just remember Toyota was losing money on the Prius (started turning a profit sometime after a million plus units) for a while though. I think this one has a real shot given the market it is after and whom is backing it.

kb58 wrote: I just realized that it's a clever way that EV makers can claim that the operating cost is less than an IC car - charge the car away from home and don't pay for the electricity. Does anyone have input on claimed vs. actual range? Also, a lot of electric cars claim x.x 0-60 times, but what they don't mention is the required cool-down period. Any such restrictions with this one?

The one I've driven has the mid-sized (60 KWH?) battery pack, and it's good for ~230 miles. According to the owner those #'s are pretty good. There's a real time display on the dash, so if you're energy hogging and cut into that average you'll know it.

The free "supercharger stations" are located near interstates. He took a trip from northern MA to NH, then down to NJ on his 2nd day of ownership. Used a charging station near I95 in New York and said it charged from ~15% to 95% in about the 40 minutes it took to eat lunch. He has solar panels at home and pays nothing to operate the car.

The car drives really well. It's fast, handles better than any other big sedan I've driven, and is comfortable. Also has a huge hatch area and a good size "frunk" in front. There are a couple of minor fit & finsh things they'll need to address over time, but overall it's a hell of an effort.

kb58 wrote: I just realized that it's a clever way that EV makers can claim that the operating cost is less than an IC car - charge the car away from home and don't pay for the electricity.

Yeah, that would definitely be a bonus. I know when I was out in the NorthWest on business last year I saw EV charging parking spots in the parking lots of several major department stores. I remember thinking that it probably actually costs them very little but encourages people both with and without EVs to shop there (those with to charge their cars- and spend more time looking around the store and hopefully buying things, and those without because it looks like the store is trying to help the environment and their customers...).