Test drive

Well... i know i said i'd never buy another FWD Celica, and i still haven't. BUT:

I test drove a 2000 Celica GTS 6-speed last night, and i really don't remember them being half that fun last time i drove one 2 years ago.

This is the tighest FWD car i've ever driven, the most nimble feeling (probably partially due to the insanely small stock steering wheel), and the interior is BRILLIANT.

Cornered flat, the 6-speed is amazing feeling, and the clutch feel was perfect for how i drive. Felt like an on/off switch with maybe 3" of travel.

Forward visibility was to the point that it almost became epic. Rear visibility sucked. Seats were some of the best stock units i've ever felt. Headlights lit up the road PERFECTLY.

And the motor. Oh god.. the motor. I love it. Has no power below 3000rpms to speak of, i found myself driving around in a gear lower than normal just for the response, and that sewing machine-smooth whir. I DID forget how high the lift engagement was on these cars, though, after being used to Hondas recently. I got on it once in 2nd gear and took it to 6500 and was disappointed. Tried again, hit that magic number and HOLY CRAP the rest of the tach just disappeared. Seriously quick car when kept in powerband for the money. My buddy that was with me drives a 93 Civic Hatch with a high compression LS Vtec, and he said that the stock celica pulled harder in lift than his car did.

Bad news? Dealership was asking $7980 for it, with 132k miles. Talked them down to $6950 + tax/docs, which would have come out to about $7800 when all was said and done.

It had been hit on passenger front, they kept trying to tell me "Well it's got a clean carfax, so we don't think it's been hit."

No. I'm telling you it's been hit. Hood was tweaked, fender was tweaked, door was hitting the fende when you opened it, and they just turned a blind eye to it.

Needless to say i passed, with what they had in it and with the damage, i should have had that thing for $6000 out the door. But it drove so well.

I have a new unicorn.

Not sure what the point of this post was. Just felt like sharing.

2000 Celica GTS 6-speed, 132k miles, hood was tweaked, fender was tweaked, door was hitting the fender when you opened it... and you would have paid $6k out the door?

That really sounds more like a donkey than a unicorn. And it might have mange.

walterj wrote: 2000 Celica GTS 6-speed, 132k miles, hood was tweaked, fender was tweaked, door was hitting the fender when you opened it... and you would have paid $6k out the door? That really sounds more like a donkey than a unicorn. And it might have mange.

It tracked well, there were no mechanical problems. Just whoever put those parts on didn't line it up right. There was no abnormal wear, no rattles, it drove like brand new, just looked a little funky when you took a good look at it. I could have fixed those issues in an afternoon.

They were willing to put it on a frame rack for me, i'm 99.9% positive that we wouldn't have found anything.

As for that particular car? It's not my unicorn. I agree that it's a donkey.

But a 2000-2005 Celica GTS is my unicorn. Of the week at least.

93celicaGT2 wrote: As for that particular car? It's not my unicorn. I agree that it's a donkey. But a 2000-2005 Celica GTS is my unicorn. Of the week at least.

I also suffer from flavor of the week syndrome... one day I need a TR-6, the next its a Miata or a 911 or a whatever. My current Unicorn seems to be the project I already have though - the end seems like it keeps getting further away.

I hear ya.... I think the main reason why i liked this car is because it was everything that my 92 is, minus torque and minus rattles, but WAY more of everything else.

I was flat out AMAZED at the way it handled. I think i need to drive a Mini to compare, but the RSX Type S/Civic Si had nothing on this thing.

I DO need a miata though.... it's just hard for me to find the exact one that i want. Not much variation with the Celica other than redline changes throughout the model run.

The only thing that stinks about the GT-S is the gear ratio's. For some odd reason or another, Toyota decided to put in a gearbox that doesn't keep you in lift when you shift. So if you shift at redline, you'll end up in the next gear out of lift.

I think the only solution is to shift past redline up to the rev limiter. I know Toyota limited the rev limiter for the (I believe) 2002 model to 7800 rpm , as opposed to 8200 on the other years.

93celicaGT2:

I run into this problem all the time. These guys are using CarFax as some oracle to help them get way too much money for a car any fool knows has been hit. I don't even look at the CarFax. All CarFax tells you is the reported hits. Instead of relying on CarFax, you looked at the car. The car will tell you more about its condition than a stupid piece of paper. Obviously, this one was repaired by Xanax-addled chimps who did a poor job.

OK, so you like the 2K Celica. So do I. Don't even feel bad about not buying this one. You did the right thing. Find a better one that's worth it. Have fun test driving the potential candidates.

bequietanddrive wrote: The only thing that stinks about the GT-S is the gear ratio's. For some odd reason or another, Toyota decided to put in a gearbox that doesn't keep you in lift when you shift. So if you shift at redline, you'll end up in the next gear out of lift. I think the only solution is to shift past redline up to the rev limiter. I know Toyota limited the rev limiter for the (I believe) 2002 model to 7800 rpm , as opposed to 8200 on the other years.

It only does that on the 1-2 shift, but with new products coming out, it's an easy fix at this point. The PowerFC can take care of it, and with enough wheelspin on a 1-2 shift it's not an issue.

But yeah... i'm not sure what they were thinking. There was a guy a few years back that dropped the lift engagement down to 6k rpms, and the car dropped almost a full second 0-60 and dropped to low 14s in the quarter mile with that modification only.

Jerry From LA wrote: 93celicaGT2: I run into this problem all the time. These guys are using CarFax as some oracle to help them get way too much money for a car any fool knows has been hit. I don't even look at the CarFax. All CarFax tells you is the reported hits. Instead of relying on CarFax, you looked at the car. The car will tell you more about its condition than a stupid piece of paper. Obviously, this one was repaired by Xanax-addled chimps who did a poor job. OK, so you like the 2K Celica. So do I. Don't even feel bad about not buying this one. You did the right thing. Find a better one that's worth it. Have fun test driving the potential candidates.

Yeah, they're crooks. It was a Honda dealer, what should i expect? They had the car in the back so it wouldn't take attention from the 8 Civic Sis and 4 S2000s they couldn't sell. Tried to tell me that the body wasn't lining up because "Toyota quality isn't quite to the level of what we're used to seeing."

EXCUSE ME?

I think i'm going to go back there and see if they'll let me trade my 92 in on an S2000 just to berkeley with them.

Sure they will, but they'll only give you $500 for it.

Just like they gave the kid with the 2000 GTS with the front end knocked off!

G_Stock wrote: Sure they will, but they'll only give you $500 for it.

I doubt even that.... Mazda tried to give me $300 for my last celica when i was looking into a MSM.

This one is approximately 1/4 as civilized, although it does lack rust.

Unless they'll give me $3000 for it, i'll keep it. And i know they won't, so whatever.

It'll just be funny watching the guy trying to take it around the block for their test drive.

John Brown wrote: Just like they gave the kid with the 2000 GTS with the front end knocked off!

Haha, they didn't like it much when i badgered them about how much they had in it.

"No... really. You gave the guy who traded it in for a new Si like $2800 for it. I'm sure you did."

Haha yeah car dealers make me laugh. I tried to make one give me NADA trade in on a Sport Track, they didn't like me bringing in the paper with the trade-in value on it.

Here's two, bring that EGT (or Celica) when you come down for the Dragon, we will make a deal, then pick up one of these!

http://fayetteville.craigslist.org/cto/1047983117.html

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/1051923745.html

I haven't driven one in a few years but I remember not being able to see anything behind me, or next to me...HUGE blind spots. No doubt it's an awesome car and at those prices I might have to take a gander myself.

93celicaGT2 wrote: Yeah, they're crooks. It was a Honda dealer, what should i expect? They had the car in the back so it wouldn't take attention from the 8 Civic Sis and 4 S2000s they couldn't sell. Tried to tell me that the body wasn't lining up because "Toyota quality isn't quite to the level of what we're used to seeing."

Then you ask them why the quality is so much better on one side of the car than it is on the other.

Actually, Honda dealers are great places to find Toyotas when they're not total pieces of crap and vice versa. My wife bought her Camry from a Ford dealer at a price no Toyota dealer would ever give her. They're too busy trying to prop up resale value for their own marque.

The easiest way to value a trade? Clean up your present car, take it to two or three used dealer lots and ask them what they'll pay for it. If your dealer tries to lowball you, tell them you have a firm offer of x more than their pathetic excuse for an offer. If they still balk, leave and sell your car (wholesale) to the guy that made the good offer or find a car dealer that will match it.

Your ultimate car-buying power is your ability to get up and walk out.

Carson wrote: Here's two, bring that EGT (or Celica) when you come down for the Dragon, we will make a deal, then pick up one of these! http://fayetteville.craigslist.org/cto/1047983117.html http://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/1051923745.html

That second one is scary cheap.... there's GOT to be something wrong with it. That's a screaming deal!

The idea was to get one before the Dragon if i was going to get it this soon, so i would have time/money to throw some tire on it and get used to it.

We'll see.... i have to start working on the Celica this week for a pretty large "Phase 2" and i doubt after this is done that it'll be appealing to anyone but someone looking for a ridiculously over-built car for a stronger motor. It's on the final stretch to not really being a streetable car.

My Bridgestone RE-01Rs in 245/40-17 just came in, if that tells you anything.

You should come up for a day either way though and meet up with us. ESPECIALLY if you still have the MR2 then. There will be at least three other SW20s meeting up with us. An n/a, a TD06 powered one, and a GT32 powered one.

Jerry From LA wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: Yeah, they're crooks. It was a Honda dealer, what should i expect? They had the car in the back so it wouldn't take attention from the 8 Civic Sis and 4 S2000s they couldn't sell. Tried to tell me that the body wasn't lining up because "Toyota quality isn't quite to the level of what we're used to seeing."

Then you ask them why the quality is so much better on one side of the car than it is on the other. Actually, Honda dealers are great places to find Toyotas when they're not total pieces of crap and vice versa. My wife bought her Camry from a Ford dealer at a price no Toyota dealer would ever give her. They're too busy trying to prop up resale value for their own marque. The easiest way to value a trade? Clean up your present car, take it to two or three used dealer lots and ask them what they'll pay for it. If your dealer tries to lowball you, tell them you have a firm offer of x more than their pathetic excuse for an offer. If they still balk, leave and sell your car (wholesale) to the guy that made the good offer or find a car dealer that will match it. Your ultimate car-buying power is your ability to get up and walk out.

That's the problem... no dealer is going to give me money for the car unless i sink more money into things i don't care about on it. Having them look at it and test drive it would be purely a joke. They tend not to like gutted, lowered, loud cars with bracing taking up a bunch of space in the back, and rocker switches controlling fans and various other things. It WOULD be fun to try and trade it in with the Nitrous still on it....

93celicaGT2 wrote: You should come up for a day either way though and meet up with us. ESPECIALLY if you still have the MR2 then. There will be at least three other SW20s meeting up with us. An n/a, a TD06 powered one, and a GT32 powered one.

I might do that. It'll be in the middle of my move though so I'm not sure I'll be able to swing it. I do want to see some EGT pictures when you get some though!