I'm on my 10th TR8 and counting. I still love Brit cars. Looks like you just chose the wrong one. You should have had a V8.
I'm on my 10th TR8 and counting. I still love Brit cars. Looks like you just chose the wrong one. You should have had a V8.
In reply to tr8todd:
it's not the engine that I have an issue with, lol...
I have a ~300hp wrx for when I actually want to go fast 
btw, I wasn't trying to suggest that I hate British cars. I love British cars. I just hate the morons who designed the rear mechanicals of the GT6 out of the parts bin to save a few bucks.
irish44j wrote: btw, I wasn't trying to suggest that I hate British cars. I love British cars. I just hate the morons who designed the rear mechanicals of the GT6 out of the parts bin to save a few bucks.
Hell using the parts bin to save a few bucks is a universal problem.
irish44j, if I recall, I tired to warn you. I may have said something like "RUN AWAY." My first car was a GT6.
oldtin wrote: Keep the basic looks - eliminate all British parts. The only British left in my mg are doors, roof, glass and tub ( although modified), oh and tail lights.
Leaving the taillights was a bold move...
In reply to 96DXCivic:
yeah, but the Honda or GM parts bin is far superior to the Leyland parts bin, lol..
In reply to Dr. Hess:
I've had this GT6 since 1991 and it was my dad's for 20 years before that.....so I'm thinking that you didn't warn me, lol....
maybe regarding picking up the Mk3 you did.....
irish44j wrote: After a day in the garage working on fixing one thing on the GT6 and getting the rear suspension back together, now have found some major issues, and of course the tools to do these jobs don't actually exist in 2010 America. I officially hate the Brits who designed this car. How can it look so sexy and be designed so horribly???? /venting.
Sorry dude if you are looking for a argument I doubt you will find one. Bad cars, bad beer and bad electrics.(Oh yea they have awesome weather too).
You forgot to mention the poor build quality. Today while stripping tar paper out of my Triumph Stag I found a metal rod, pieces of wire, and a couple of bolts all under or sealed into the insulation, not to mention that most of it only held water under it , and didn't seal well...
Streetwiseguy wrote: I've banned Brit cars from the shop. I've worked on them since the early 80's, when the owners hated their cars, and their mechanics, because all they really wanted was something to drive to work, and this pile of E36 M3 was always broke. Segue to the 90's, and nobody drove them daily anymore, but memories were fresh. If I could make one start and run, and only drool a bit of oil, and have that last for the couple thousand miles they put on it every year, they were happy. Turn the century, and memories have faded, while Brit apologists have made people believe that they weren't really all that bad. Now, it seems that people figure if they spend enough money on Chinese reproductions of poorly designed Lucas parts, they can eventually spend their way into a car as reliable as a Corrolla. That won't happen, and I won't put up with them anymore. I have no problem with people working on their own British cars. They generally still have the 90's attitude.
Thats a loaded statement, and I've been wondering how to intelligently respond to it as someone who loves "LBC's" as well as big british cars and non-exotic sportscars from the same era.
I often wonder what it was like for someone who bought an MG or TR from the dealer new; what were their expectations, what was it like to drive that car every day, relatively new, and put up with problems? It must have been frustrating...Then there are the shop stewards who must have been so frustrated at their inability to do their job, not because of any technical deficiency on their part, but due to the horrible starting point? Its amazing any of these cars are still with us at all.
Nonetheless, these cars are incredibly rewarding if you learn to address some of the basic problems from the get go. The first car I ever bought was a '71 MGB "tourer". You have to laugh at "tourer" as part of the nomenclature. That car was so bad that it should have been illegal, and I'm not a proponent of governmental regulation.
Yes, the Chinese parts are frustrating all over again, as I'm sure the original parts were. At the same time, the basic design is not faulty so much as it is just antiquated.
I can understand from a business perspective shutting out high expectation/high maintenance customers because it hurts the bottom line and they may not be "car people" per se. Also, there may be other, more deserving drivers who need more "legitimate" work done, but at the same time, I bought my GT for $1700, had some work done, did some work myself as well, and it starts everytime I want it to and has for the last 5 years consistently.
I shudder at the though of delving into a "MAF/computer managed" contemporary classic. I've had enough of those in "my shop" to turn them away permanently.
I've always LIKED British cars, but they come across as poorly developed or not completely sorted designs. It never helped that the British (seemed to?) believe NO ONE else, ESPECIALLY the Japanese, could ever build a better car. I think it's the country's overwhelming sense of patience....at least in public, that has doomed their car designs in the past. That is, "well, we broke down again, but the local garage is within walking distance...so no big deal." And besides, they have/had? a great train system.
irish44j wrote: In reply to 96DXCivic: yeah, but the Honda or GM parts bin is far superior to the Leyland parts bin, lol..
I have two MG Midgets. I know about that. 
Despite the fact they are not nearly as well developed as a lot of other cars I still would rather have LBC.
I have nothing to add to this thread except that TR-6s and MGB GTs make me WANT. Not a reasonable want with reasonable expectations either... The kind of want that makes you try too hard to impress a pretty girl even though you know she is a high-maintenance, self absorbed gold digging prude and not the filthy sex crazed nympho you want her to be.
Damn... my imagination has caused me so much trouble in the past. This time it will be different though ;)
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: The kind of want that makes you try too hard to impress a pretty girl even though you know she is a high-maintenance, self absorbed gold digging prude and not the filthy sex crazed nympho you want her to be.
Best description EVAR!
Don't beat up on Britain too much. Good music, good amps, good cars/Landys, good beer and... Marmite...
JeepinMatt wrote: Don't beat up on Britain too much. Good music, good amps, good cars/Landys, good beer and... Marmite...
Marmite?
Love it or hate it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoRcU0Ul7tU
SPOILER - possibly offensive to those with sensitivities.
HA! The 1985 MR2 was designed by engineers who lost relatives in WWII and still harbored a deep hatred of Americans. How else can you explain the location of the oil filter?
In reply to oldsaw:
I love Marmite, but it's a good people-repellent.
"Hands off my new stuff!" - Shake fist and wave open jar of Marmite -
And TR8todd is always trying to get me to buy a TR8 from him. Won't happen in this lifetime.
I will stick to my inferior old Mazda rotaries.
I often wonder what it was like for someone who bought an MG or TR from the dealer new; what were their expectations, what was it like to drive that car every day, relatively new, and put up with problems?
My '70 GT6 was bought new by my father when he graduated from the Naval Academy. He was from a blue-collar family and had no money, so he got it. According to him, pretty much all of his company-mates bought vettes and porsches.
Him being an engineer (naval, not automotive), he apparently felt compelled to "improve" parts of the car as things broke or didn't work over the years. These "improvements," added to poorly-fixed damage from 3 different accidents, have been major annoyances as I've worked to restore the car. Some of my favorites: - poorly-done fiberglass rockers and rear wings that don't fit quite right and therefore the doors don't close well or fit correctly - at some point the entire steel backin piece for the dash was cut out with a saw so he could in stall a "custom" wood dash (e.g. built in the garage with basic tools) with additional gauges. I ended up cutting the same piece out of a parts Mk3 I had a while back and retrofitting it to the +. - huge amounts of suspension shimming, most of which appears to have been pretty haphazard. - apparently the rear quarter vents were too noisy, so he sealed on up completely and in place of the other, installed a little stained-glass window. The vents have been re-installed now, but only one is functional. I left the stained-glass in place on the other side, but it's covered by the original chrome vent... - cracked corner of the head, fixed with JB weld. Apparently this was from something heavy being dropped on it, which chipped the cast piece. It's still functional, but an example of half-assed fixes.
In dad's defense, he was usually trying to fix things quickly and cheaply between Navy deployments, and fixer-upper houses.
In reply to irish44j:
That's part of the charm or karma of LBCs. You could keep them going with duct tape, jb weld and some speaker wire. Kinda cool it's got a stained glass window. The simplicity also means it's simple to hack a fix together when you don't have the time, money, knowledge or inclination and it will still work sorta. Maybe irritating to put right now, but most people aren't thinking their car is something that will still be hanging around the house 40 years from now.
There's 2 approaches as I see it, or "according to my opinion", on British car ownership, I reckon these apply to car ownership in general, or possibly life, but for purposes of relevance to the topic I'll stick to LBCs.
I formed this opinion on the basis of having tried of the methods listed below over decades.
I have a 1962 Austin Healey Sprite. When obtained it required a roll-back wrecker to move the "car" plus it's stacks of wheels and body panels and mountain of moldering cardboard cartons of parts. It was so comprehensively hammered that fixing a couple things to "get it streetable" was not even remotely an option. It was pushed into the garage, and didn't emerge for the best part of 3 years. When it ran again, it had been last nut+bolt restored, and after running in and sorting the various little issues, it was stone reliable, rock solid and a joy to drive for the next decade.
The car is mostly back together from a re-repaint and under hood detailing, and finally addressing the suspension. It'll be an even better car.
I recently got a 1990 Miata. 124K miles, clean straight body, essentially no rust, no mods aside from nice wheels I'd have bought anyway. Test drove straight but with tired suspension.
I drove it for a month or so and it was pleasant on the highway, but lost its composure on ripples and bumps to the degree it felt broken. I started researching what to do, pulled the trigger on parts, stripped it and have been slogging away for a couple weeks. It should be back on it's wheels this weekend. What I found as I removed the suspension and drive train was that the previous owners never replaced anything 'til it immobilized the car probably, or was needed to pass inspection. A front lower ball joint...but only one side. Catalytic converter was a generic aftermarket piece poorly welded to the cut-off head-pipe and mid-pipe which assured that to fit a Flyin' Miata butterfly brace I'd be replacing the exhaust from the ports to the rear bumper cover.
All but one shock was blown, all the bushings were tired, inner and outer shift boots shredded, and on and on and on.
When finished the car will look like a clean NA Miata - not flawless but nice. It'll drive better than a new NA Miata, and should require nothing but fluid changes for a long while.
With LBCs, the problems lean toward systemic and chronic. Something fails because something ~made it fail~. Determination of root cause and replacement or repair of all aspects at play in the failure need to be addressed before it's "fixed". And most of all - they were made with the assumption that the owner would be comfortable with suspensions with eleventeen Zerks and steering rack with Zerks, but which need to be filled w/ 140 wt hypoid oil. Cylinder heads which need to be "decoked" and engines which realistically need to be rebuilt every 30k miles. These cars were engineered for narrow, rock hard crossply tires and 50mph on meandering British lanes...
Ultimately I've learned it's easier and cheaper in the long run to just fix it all when you're there.
Yeah, avoid those British cars......awful things! They are worse than The Devil, Beelzebub, Satan and Bob Costas combined!
good....more for me. 
I'm not old enough to have bought many LBC's new, but I was old enough to have bought them when almost new. My first MGB was a 1977 I purchased in 1982... only 5 years old but considered a "vintage" car even then since it took the same amount of effort as owning an early 60's car. They still took nearly daily driver maintenance.
I posted something similar over on the vintage car board... but it seems strange that a 5 year old car then would be already be considered "specialty" or "collector" when my newest daily driver today is double that age (and my wife's daily driver is 20!).
I love British cars, but the Brits tended to build everything to a price and not to adopt new technology. The MGB in 1980 differed little from the MGB in 1963... which (except for the body itself) different little from prewar MGs.
Heck, a 2000 Mini can easily pass (and often does) for a 1959 model. So even the "new" UK cars were really old.
And when they did try to change/update (e.g. TR7) their customer base rebelled.
Despite what we "old timers" think, cars have significantly improved... in both design and reliability.
Compare a 1980's E30 to a 1980 MGB. Same basic era, but look at the difference in spec. An E30 is still readily usable as an intense daily driver (wife does over 20k annually in her 1990) while doing the same in an MGB would be nearly insane even for the hardcore.
Bill
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