The BRZ - 4 Months In

On Saturday I will have owned the BRZ for exactly 4 months, so I thought I would put my thoughts about it down here, both good and bad.

The good: Has to be the way it drives. You always want to take the long way home. Steering feel is near old style Porsche level, and that's a compliment. Its also economical to own. I average about 30mpg for mixed driving, and in fact, my average since I've bought it (it now has 5,027.6 miles) is 30.8. There have been zero repairs or trips to the dealer, and it still looks and smells like new in all regards. People like it and point to it almost everyday, and no one cuts you off and thinks you are a tool in the way they did with the 370, or the Cooper S for that matter. And with the low speeds, you can have a great time without the fear of going to jail.

Where the 370 was all seriousness, the BRZ is simply fun all the time. That's the best compliment I can give, it's just a fun, rewarding car to drive.

The bad: Has to be the engine. I simply do not care for it. It feels out of place in the car. The old 2.2 boxer in my previous '97 Impreza was a great motor. This one misses the mark, and I can't put my finger on why specifically that is. I think it is that I keep wanting it to feel more like a 4AGE or F20C. It needs more torque, but you never get that satisfying at the rev limit feel the F20C delivers. Its just buzzy and the power never appears.

Seats. Not really bad, but bad for my back. I had the seat modified and it has helped, but there are still some issues I need to address. This isn't a fault of the car but my older age.

Tires: Not bad for driving back and forth to work, but as many here already know, they are not a performance tire and on ramps tax them greatly. They squeal at the slightest change of direction too.

Shocks: Very stiff compression, crap on rebound. Its easy to overdrive them. These are probably my first change to the car. Of course my friends say I'm overly shock sensitive, but if you get them changing directions quickly, the shocks simply are overwhelmed.

Summary: Its a great car for the money. Certainly not perfect, but there aren't many new cars you can pick up in this price range that will drive as well. Most of its problems the aftermarket can fix. The engine, well, its almost a spoiler for the whole car. The big question is would I buy it again. Don't know at this point. In many ways I like the 370 far better. It was certainly nicer, easy to cruise long distances, and the BRZ isn't in the same ball park in terms of speed. But the BRZ is great fun as a low speed car. And of course it was $15k cheaper, which makes it a bargain.

Thanks for sharing -- and the objective feedback. I haven't driven one, but in my head I compare them to a Mk1 MR2: You can drive the hell out of it all the time and probably won't go to jail. But if you take away the 4AGE, it would be a different car.

I'm almost at 3 months on the FR-S. I'm coming from big, lazy Merican V-8 sedans and a 30 year old Toyota 4Runner with half a million miles on it (seriously.)

Good

The seat fits me like a glove. 6ft tall with a 32in inseam. The way the thrust comes in above 5 grand. Sharp handling on what have been described as Prius tires. I haven't had her on the highway, but in reasonable town traffic, I'm getting 28.9mpg. I short shift a lot.

Bad

Do not like the touch screen. I have to look EVERY damn time. Wish the USb and/or power port stayed on without the key in accessory in case I need to juice up my phone on occasion. The biggest problem I found is the hesitation in throttle response, especially below the magic 5,000rpm. The engines I had before, you could wip crack the throttle from idle and get a bWAAAPpp. Here is just bbbbbwwwwWAAP. Picking nits, I wish the bolt pattern was 5x114.3. So many stock sized rims to be had at that size.

Forgot about the touchscreen Appleseed. Agree 100%. I leaves a lot to be desired for a modern factory unit. I miss my steering wheel controls too. Man I'm spoiled.

My last few cars include a 350Z, Coyote Mustang, Speed 3, NC Miata.

I don't get the hate for the engine, does it have the best exhaust/intake note? No, it's a 4banger.

These things really need a tune, even stock. Header + tune nearly kills the TQ dip and adds another 15-25whp up top. And as light as the are, they are ridiculously easy to get 100lbs or so out of without killing it's DD ability.

Of course I've modded mine a bit since I bought it at the end of October (only 7400 miles!)

Ground Controls with 375f/425r rates
18x9.5 RPF1s with 255/35 Direzza's
MXP Cat-back
Open Flash Tablet running the E85 tune

Next up I need adjustable LCAs in the rear for camber adjustment and the Stance version actually adds back in some bump travel because of the mounting point.

Then brake pads and an oil cooler. I love this car and will be doing many more mods to it, to get it exactly where I want it.

I certainly don't hate this engine. Just that one thing. I won't be voiding the warranty any time soon, so I'll live with any nits that I pick. I defend this car a lot more than I complain about it. 200hp is more tnan enough to do stupid things with it.

OFT + E85.

Any issues flash it back to stock. The OFT doesn't leave a foot print that ROM has been erased and overwritten.

racerdave600 wrote: The good: Has to be the way it drives. You always want to take the long way home. Where the 370 was all seriousness, the BRZ is simply fun all the time. That's the best compliment I can give, it's just a fun, rewarding car to drive. The bad: Has to be the engine. I simply do not care for it. ... misses the mark, and I can't put my finger on why specifically that is. I think it is that I keep wanting it to feel more like a 4AGE or F20C. Summary: Its a great car for the money. Certainly not perfect, but there aren't many new cars you can pick up in this price range that will drive as well. Most of its problems the aftermarket can fix. The engine, well, its almost a spoiler for the whole car. The big question is would I buy it again. Don't know at this point. ... the BRZ is great fun as a low speed car. And of course it was $15k cheaper, which makes it a bargain.

I am three years ahead of you and just crossed the warranty line, so reliability will become the concern for the next 7 years.

Would I buy one again? Truth is that for no rational reason, I don't ever want to own another car with a Subaru engine. Purely subjective,and it has not done anything wrong yet, but I just don't like it.

Interesting conversation:

"I don't like the engine"

"Well that's because you haven't fixed it for the manufacturer yet."

Ehhh... there's precious few motors i'd say couldn't benefit from some work from the factory.

I'm reading this thread as "Find a first year car out of warranty with a blown engine and swap it for an S2000 powerplant". Is that a correct summary?

Sounds like a lot of work for a motor that makes marginally more power with a taller COG that might not even fit under the hood without some really expensive modifications.

The BRZ needs the new WRX motor in the worst way. The FA20t is fantastic - wife loves her 15 wrx

Over 3 years and out of the warranty on mine and other than the engine and seats I love it to death. Power level is not the issue, I'm absolutely fine with the power level of the FA20. I'm not fine with the questionable reliability of the motor (not a fan at all of Subaru motors, this is the third Subaru I've had experience with...'91 2.2L FWD Legacy and '05 2.5L Impreza being the other two.) - this is the first 'Toyota' I've owned that I've ever questioned the motors ability to reach 100k miles. I'm already looking ahead to what I want to do when the motor goes on the car...

Oil pressure is pretty low on this motor when up to temp and pushing it, which is why I will not run 0W-20 oil in it ever again and I get check engine light with P0351 code (coil pack 1) if I'm too hard on acceleration or deceleration when up to temp due to ignition coil breakdown issue that will happen to all of them given enough time for the heat to get to them. Engine runs hot due to the closed in nature of the engine bay, actually ruined a LiFEPO4 battery (not cheap!) I had installed for a just a short while. Heat management is really the biggest issue for the stock motor, especially summertime in Texas. You have to do oil cooling mods if you plan any tracking of it, or risk loosing your motor when the oil pressure drops like a rock. Tracking without an oil cooler you can see 270-280F oil temps...

Fuel mileage is what it is for me... 20mpg is good enough I guess. An AP2 F22C would be about the perfect affordable motor for the chassis...8k rpm redline with nice sound and near bulletproof construction. Perfect non-affordable motor would be this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5Q_rGllPVs

P.S. Anyone else try to find 7th gear in their Twin sometimes....LOL

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why one of these is better than a used C5 or C5 Z06.

No. But coming from a traditional 5 speed, I sometimes shove it up into 5th, and think" Oh E36 M3, that's reverse!" LOLzers.

In reply to 93gsxturbo:

Can you still get a new C5? The oldest are knocking on 20 years old. I was tired of the same old broken, used car crap.

93gsxturbo wrote: I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why one of these is better than a used C5 or C5 Z06.

It all depends on what you are looking for I guess...but the corvettes are not nimble in chassis response compared to a Twin. The Twins have one of the most nimble and responsive chassis's ever made for a FR car. Then there is also the Vorshlag upgrade option down the road for the FR-S... Corvette power in a more precise and responsive handling 2,800lb package...

racerdave600 wrote: On Saturday I will have owned the BRZ for exactly 4 months, so...

I'm one month into ownership, and I agree w/ most everything you wrote:

Pros:

• It's a very economical commuter, averaging 31+mpg w/ my daily ~70mi commute

• The nimble chassis w/ great steering. I find myself taking the "fun" way home. I am constantly smiling or laughing while driving the car, and that to me says it all.

• I love the shifter feel and action, which is good because you will need to shift a lot to keep the fun meter up. It really is a good manual!

• The driving position works really well for me. Being 6'4", seating positions are usually a compromise. In the BRZ, it just feels right. The reach to the controls are right, and comfortable for long drives.

• The huge aftermarket is a major pro for me. It means that any given problem has about 10 solutions. It also means that I have products available for any normal or crazy ideas I have.

Cons (or more like open issues at this point):

• Seats are so-so. I like the support, but being bigger, they are a little snug for me. I feel like the bolsters pinch my shoulders in, if that makes sense? I am also hoping I can mod the seat bottoms to gain a little more helmet room. Racerdave600, who did your seat mods?

• The engine. Like you said, don't hate it, but don't love it yet either. It is a little rough around the edges, and the long term reliability is going to be a question in the back of my head. It's not the "lack of power", because I really think it is plenty for everyday driving, and keeps me out of trouble, but more the odd power delivery and coarseness. It's still early in my ownership, so who knows, my thoughts my change. I do know that before any tracking, I will be adding an oil cooler, some heat shielding, and few other track prep/durability items.

• The stereo. It isn't the worst I've every used, but I guess I've been spoiled by other current model year offerings. I really do miss not having steering wheel controls. Also the sound quality is just okay.

• Cabin noise is fairly high. I understand the goal was to keep the car light, but I will probably be adding a few pounds of dynamat or similar selectively throughout the car. As an added side effect, it might help the stereo sound quality too.

93gsxturbo wrote: I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why one of these is better than a used C5 or C5 Z06.

Call me when you find a new C5 with a 3 year warranty that weighs 2700lbs.

If you don't "Get" the concept of low mass and nimble handling in a DD as a value proposition, then the FRS will never make sense. Besides the styling, that is what you are paying for.

99.9% of people never take their car on a track, so as a year round (snow ) street-driven-only DD, you would have to explain to me what the value proposition is for the Vette?

The good news for some is that Vorshlag is making a LSx swap kit for the Twins. Very nice looking piece of kit. IF the Twins hang around as long as the Miatae have, there should be plenty of these on the road in the future.

DaveEstey wrote: Interesting conversation: "I don't like the engine" "Well that's because you haven't fixed it for the manufacturer yet."

Ahh, so every car you've ever owned you've never made mods to increase reliability or HP for fun use.

Got it.

93gsxturbo wrote: I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why one of these is better than a used C5 or C5 Z06.

Because it wasn't twice the price new.

The whole new vs old on price is a false dichotomy. Troll elsewhere.

Vracer111 wrote: Over 3 years and out of the warranty on mine and other than the engine and seats I love it to death. Power level is not the issue, I'm absolutely fine with the power level of the FA20. I'm not fine with the questionable reliability of the motor (not a fan at all of Subaru motors, this is the third Subaru I've had experience with...'91 2.2L FWD Legacy and '05 2.5L Impreza being the other two.) - this is the first 'Toyota' I've owned that I've ever questioned the motors ability to reach 100k miles. I'm already looking ahead to what I want to do when the motor goes on the car... Oil pressure is pretty low on this motor when up to temp and pushing it, which is why I will not run 0W-20 oil in it ever again and I get check engine light with P0351 code (coil pack 1) if I'm too hard on acceleration or deceleration when up to temp due to ignition coil breakdown issue that will happen to all of them given enough time for the heat to get to them. Engine runs hot due to the closed in nature of the engine bay, actually ruined a LiFEPO4 battery (not cheap!) I had installed for a just a short while. Heat management is really the biggest issue for the stock motor, especially summertime in Texas. You have to do oil cooling mods if you plan any tracking of it, or risk loosing your motor when the oil pressure drops like a rock. Tracking without an oil cooler you can see 270-280F oil temps... Fuel mileage is what it is for me... 20mpg is good enough I guess. An AP2 F22C would be about the perfect affordable motor for the chassis...8k rpm redline with nice sound and near bulletproof construction. Perfect non-affordable motor would be this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5Q_rGllPVs P.S. Anyone else try to find 7th gear in their Twin sometimes....LOL

Do you literally redline every shift every time you drive the car?

I'm curious how you are getting such terrible gas mileage. Granted a fair amount of my commute is highway driving, but even on E85 and driving "spirited" on occasion I still average 21-22mpg per tank.

I am at 1.5 years on my FRS and still love it. I agree with all of the positive comments, the biggest is the "FUN" factor. Everytime I drive the car it is fun no matter what I am doing.

The negatives are few for me. I have had zero reliability issues. My gas mileage has been great, average 30mpg. As far as the hate the engine gets, my take is that yes it is different than other engines I have driven. Again different, not necessarily bad. Some people have a prefered style of engine and some don't. I have driven low rpm torque monsters and high revving zingers. They are different and do require different driving techniques. But I am a car guy so I love them all.

Thanks Jon

z31maniac wrote:

Vracer111 wrote: Over 3 years and out of the warranty on mine and other than the engine and seats I love it to death. Power level is not the issue, I'm absolutely fine with the power level of the FA20. I'm not fine with the questionable reliability of the motor (not a fan at all of Subaru motors, this is the third Subaru I've had experience with...'91 2.2L FWD Legacy and '05 2.5L Impreza being the other two.) - this is the first 'Toyota' I've owned that I've ever questioned the motors ability to reach 100k miles. I'm already looking ahead to what I want to do when the motor goes on the car... Oil pressure is pretty low on this motor when up to temp and pushing it, which is why I will not run 0W-20 oil in it ever again and I get check engine light with P0351 code (coil pack 1) if I'm too hard on acceleration or deceleration when up to temp due to ignition coil breakdown issue that will happen to all of them given enough time for the heat to get to them. Engine runs hot due to the closed in nature of the engine bay, actually ruined a LiFEPO4 battery (not cheap!) I had installed for a just a short while. Heat management is really the biggest issue for the stock motor, especially summertime in Texas. You have to do oil cooling mods if you plan any tracking of it, or risk loosing your motor when the oil pressure drops like a rock. Tracking without an oil cooler you can see 270-280F oil temps... Fuel mileage is what it is for me... 20mpg is good enough I guess. An AP2 F22C would be about the perfect affordable motor for the chassis...8k rpm redline with nice sound and near bulletproof construction. Perfect non-affordable motor would be this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5Q_rGllPVs P.S. Anyone else try to find 7th gear in their Twin sometimes....LOL

Do you literally redline every shift every time you drive the car? I'm curious how you are getting such terrible gas mileage. Granted a fair amount of my commute is highway driving, but even on E85 and driving "spirited" on occasion I still average 21-22mpg per tank.

ditto....I have a stage 1 (290whp) 09 WRX (2.5) and I drive the piss out of it in horrible DC traffic and have never seen a tank under 22mpg (and rarely over 24mpg) in that car. You may want to shift out of first gear on occasion if you're getting that kind of mpg's, lol