I'm not a muscle car guy. But I'm getting into them. So what would be the fastest, around the track, the autocross, and the drag strip? Keeping in mind- all stock. NO MODS. I'm guessing corvette of every year given its pedigree and mission statement.
I'm looking forward to learning about this. Thanks in advance to all who contribute.
Corvette wasn't a muscle car.
Muscle cars, traditionally, are big ole mid to full size passenger coupes with the largest engine they can fit in them
Are pony cars also considered to be in the muscle car group?
For road course use, my guess would be that the Trans Am homologation cars like the Boss 302 or first-gen Z28 would be the quickest. For quarter-mile, I'm sure it's one of the big-block Chevelles or Barracudas. For autocross, I don't know. Use something else. 
Correct about sports car vs muscle car but man the old 427 Corvettes sure strike me as a muscle car with that raw power.
I don’t have the answer for you but I’m guessing it’s going to depend a lot on where you draw the boundaries, and I predict a lot of the conversation to follow will basically be a definition discussion, as Mr_Asa has started with. Like for instance I don’t see a Dart as a muscle car, but I see a similar vintage Challenger as one. That’s probably just arbitrary though, except I don’t know that there was ever a Dart with a 440, so maybe it’s somewhat defined by if the mfg ever put a big block in one?? And certain cars like Mustangs started out as pony cars, defining the genre even, but when you get to the 429 Boss just a few short years later, that’s a muscle car to me.
Personally, if I were to start somewhere I’d say the ‘69 Chevelle is for me the penultimate muscle car. The closer you stay to that, the better. From there, find the one that’s lightest or has the most modern suspension, if you’re hoping to turn a corner.
I will say that I had an ‘80 Camaro in high school and even mild corners at speed plucked me out of the “teenagers think they’re invincible” camp momentarily EDIT: note: I’m not saying the 2nd gen camaro was a muscle car, just that older cars suck at handling
Mr_Asa said:Corvette wasn't a muscle car.
Muscle cars, traditionally, are big ole mid to full size passenger coupes with the largest engine they can fit in them
And here I go learning! Thank you!
In reply to P3PPY :
In my limited knowledge I would think anything v8, rwd, American, and pre 1975?
In reply to Vajingo :
So what has recently inspired you to think about muscle cars? Something in particular? If we all get to focusing on a certain term we may overlook something about what has inspired you toward older cars in the first place
History lesson, the term "Muscle Car" wasn't used until the late 70's. When they were new the mid-sized cars with full-size motors were called "Super Cars". Nowadays it's a generic term for generally American (though Australian, Canadian, and Brazilian are accepted), V8 (though turbo V6 and some other oddball 6-cylinder are accepted), midsize (though compacts like the Nova and full size like the Impala are included in the definition now along with pony cars), coupe/hardtop/fastback (though again some sedans and wagons are becoming more accepted as well sports cars like Corvettes). Phew!
The fastest modern muscle car is probably the 05-06 GTO. The fastest modern pony car is the Shelby GT350R or Camaro 1LE at the track and Challenger Demon at the strip. The fastest modern front engine sports car is the C7 ZR1. The fastest classic muscle car off probably the Buick GNX unless you don't think 80's is classic than it's probably the 70 Boss 302 but that's a pony car so probably the 69 Ford Torino Cobra Jet except it's terrible in the Autocross and would lose to a 74 GTO (Ventura).
What I'm saying is, most people don't even agree on what a muscle car is, let alone which one is the fastest at all forms of track combined. Buy what you like.
In reply to P3PPY :
Rewatching Junkyard Gold on MTOD. Steve magnante is a walking dictionary. I can tell you nearly everything about Japanese cars from 1970's forward. But, I've never ventured out of that bubble. I need to. And JY gold is educating me.
In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
The sponge is absorbing. Keep it coming folks!
Vajingo said:In reply to P3PPY :
In my limited knowledge I would think anything v8, rwd, American, and pre 1975?
I would add that if you could get the car in a 4-door version, the 2-door version would fit.
It's going to be a toss up between the brand new GT500 and the 6th gen ZL1 1LE.
They're "muscle cars" in name only... in reality they're razor sharp chainsaws, sportscars with more horsepower than sense shoved up under the hood, resulting in supercar levels of speed on track and on the drag strip for less than $100k.
as for the mere mortal versions, camaro SS 1LE 6th gen is a better overall tool than the S550 currently. New Mach 1 package for the Mustang looks like it could be competitive with the Camaro.. but also like.. many thousands of dollars more expensive.. just like the GT500 vs ZL1 1LE.
Personally i like the mustang better.. but both are WICKED cars.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:History lesson, the term "Muscle Car" wasn't used until the late 70's. When they were new the mid-sized cars with full-size motors were called "Super Cars". Nowadays it's a generic term for generally American (though Australian, Canadian, and Brazilian are accepted), V8 (though turbo V6 and some other oddball 6-cylinder are accepted), midsize (though compacts like the Nova and full size like the Impala are included in the definition now along with pony cars), coupe/hardtop/fastback (though again some sedans and wagons are becoming more accepted as well sports cars like Corvettes). Phew!
The fastest modern muscle car is probably the 05-06 GTO. The fastest modern pony car is the Shelby GT350R or Camaro 1LE at the track and Challenger Demon at the strip. The fastest modern front engine sports car is the C7 ZR1. The fastest classic muscle car off probably the Buick GNX unless you don't think 80's is classic than it's probably the 70 Boss 302 but that's a pony car so probably the 69 Ford Torino Cobra Jet except it's terrible in the Autocross and would lose to a 74 GTO (Ventura).
What I'm saying is, most people don't even agree on what a muscle car is, let alone which one is the fastest at all forms of track combined. Buy what you like.
So the 1967 Camaro, which I would call a pony car, was the size, weight and base engine equivalent of a 2000 Chevy Cavalier. The new Camaros are a lot closer to the size, weight and power of a late 60s Chevelle. So in my mind I see the modern Camaro/Mustang/Challengers as muscle cars. They’re big and bulky and insanely powerful. However, you call them pony cars. I’m not up on actual working definitions so maybe it’s well known, but what makes you classify the modern GTO as muscle (though I’d guess it’s closer to the size of a Cavalier) and the others as ponies? No wrong answers here, of course.
In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
Can we just do the first generation of "muscle"? The new stuff is... too calculated.
In reply to Vajingo :
With the exception of a standard model new Challenger, “overwrought” is how I think of them. Like caricatures of the early ones, complete with angry eye headlights and all.
Okay if you’re going for the old stuff, look up like “bone stock drag races” or something along those lines on YouTube. Supposedly stock muscle cars racing on modern tires
Vajingo said:In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
Can we just do the first generation of "muscle"? The new stuff is... too calculated.
if that's the case.. I'm out
power of hindsight makes this discussion kinda ridiculous IMHO.
About 15 years ago, Peter Klutt did a show where they put a bunch of the big hitter muscle cars through their paces. Drag racing, autocross, braking, slalom, skid pad, the works. The winner was the 1970 LS7 Chevelle SS.
(Might have been Hnitaw as the host, but I seem to remember Klutt)
Kind of hard to go wrong with a 2nd gen AMX with a 401 under the hood.
You could get a thousand different answers to this.
Muscle car, its bound to be a GM product of some sort. Their front suspension was a decade ahead of the other domestic manufacturers. Add in power, and I'd go with a 70-72 GTO or Stage IV Buick Skylark.
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:Vajingo said:In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
Can we just do the first generation of "muscle"? The new stuff is... too calculated.
if that's the case.. I'm out
power of hindsight makes this discussion kinda ridiculous IMHO.
“Power of hindsight = makes ridiculous” how so?
Vajingo said:In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
Can we just do the first generation of "muscle"? The new stuff is... too calculated.
First we need to define muscle car. We could call the 1949 Oldcmobile 88 a muscle car because the company's most powerful V-8 was put into a midsize sedan.
I venture the 69 Daytona or 70 Superbird. They approached 200mph in stock form. You aren't confusing fast with quick, are you?
In reply to P3PPY :
The GTO was always a muscle car, in fact it is usually considered "the first" one. Mustang, Cougar, Barracuda, Challenger, Camaro, and Firebird were all more or less based on a compact car platform with sportier styling and a "2+2" occupancy (two front seats and two tiny back seats) though some generations had a traditional 3-passenger bench in the back. Javelin is lumped in as a pony car even though it met none of those criteria, so go figure. The modern GTO (Americanized Holden Mobaro) while being a 2+2 seating configuration was based on an actual mid size sedan (the Holden Commodore) thus making it the very definition of a "muscle car".
The fastest muscle car.... easy Chevy SS.
Corvettes and Pony cars are not muscle cars.
low 13s at 108 to 109. No production muscle car ever went that quick except for some modified by Royal Pontiac and passed off as stock.
Appleseed said:Vajingo said:In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
Can we just do the first generation of "muscle"? The new stuff is... too calculated.
First we need to define muscle car. We could call the 1949 Oldcmobile 88 a muscle car because the company's most powerful V-8 was put into a midsize sedan.
I venture the 69 Daytona or 70 Superbird. They approached 200mph in stock form. You aren't confusing fast with quick, are you?
I know a man that owned two at one point. While quite fast, I think 200 was way out of reach in stock form.
You'll need to log in to post.
