The future of driving, and drivers?

It would seem that as a trend, fewer and fewer kids are heading over to the DMV to get a drivers permit; somewhere between 15-18% decline since 1983. This was more of a trivia piece to me than newsworthy until I realized that my daughter has no intention of getting a license.

So, once that DNA test came back confirming that she was, in fact, of my DNA line, I asked why this was so.

Driving is dangerous. The cops are out to get us so why bother? Easier to get around on the bus Parking sucks anywhere worth going Who can ever afford to drive? Insurance, gas and maintenance are beyond what they see themselves ever earning. Today paychecks don't cover the cost of vehicle ownership. Need the money for electronics Need money for rent. Cars alway break-down and you get ripped off by repair guys Car are not "Green"

While these were just my daughter's responses, I am sure there are others.

So, while in the short term, I am glad to hear that the roads will be less congested, I worry that the critical mass to support an auto industry and insurance industry will start to erode. If our insurance companies don't have youth to stick it to with the huge premiums, I am sure we are next in line. Same thing with the revenue generation from fines and profits from gasoline sales.

What say the board? Are roads going to be less crowded or is this trend a short tem blip in the statisitics? What are the long term repercusions? Is this in fact a good thing in that this new generation will push for muc improved public transit that makes private car ownerhip obsolete?

Dunno about your kid. Mine is already pestering me for wheels, she will be 15 this year. I have her enrolled in the Dad's Crash Driving Course (riding mower).

Look at Eupore, they are about 10-15 years ahead of us in this regard (plus a way, way better mass transit infrastructure). Some cities are preparing to ban cars inside them, period.

I can not quote the exact statistic but in the '80's when I was in HSchool, if and what you drove was a big status symbol.
Today, electronics have replaced much of that status. Now it is what phone you have.

It has nothing to do with driving. They are the product of two generations of over-protective, risk averse adults.

They have no sense of adventure. You have to instill one before they will look for ways to explore.

Javelin wrote: Look at Eupore, they are about 10-15 years ahead of us in this regard (plus a way, way better mass transit infrastructure). Some cities are preparing to ban cars inside them, period.

I'd say due to the mass transit infrastructure alone they are way more than 10-15 years ahead in this regard. It will be a long time before the US is connected enough with mass transit to make cars an afterthought. But my time in Europe recently I could easily see living without a car (I wouldn't like it, but the mass transit availability certainly eliminates the need)

I'm really glad Texas is too spread out for much mass transit. And I would question whether was ahead of us or behind us. All I've seen mass transit bring is more crime as the bad guys use it to rob the good guys around the train stations and then use the train to escape.

No transit police anywhere and no ticket is really needed because that would be racist to have ticket takers (yeah I don't know why either). The only ones who buy tickets are the infrequent riders.

I want the luxury of being able to go when and where I want to go. I save so much more money by being able to do things on my schedule than having to take the time to walk here, wait there and then walk on the other end to where I'm going. All the time I save makes me much more productive.

Stop giving you kids a ride to the mall once their 16...or the movies...or to Joeys house. THey will want a license quick.

And fertheluvagod...stop GIVING them gotdamt iBerry's and their tweetyfaces, and tell em to go get a friggin job

/rant

It's going to be interesting for sure. And fundamentally, I think it's a good thing in terms of congestion, pollution, fuel, etc...

I love cars, but half the time I think if they weren't invented 'til tomorrow, and we knew the full set of tradeoffs but weren't accustomed to having them, most people would say "berkeley that noise, that's insane."

OTOH, we are used to them, have built our cities around them, and for many, many places, you can't get by without a car. Here in Portland it would be pretty easy. My grandmother lives in San Antonio, and I gather everything's so spread out there that any two errands are likely to be way far apart, enough that it would be an insane feat of civil engineering to from point A to arbitrary points B, L, Q, and back to A in any sort of sane time frame on the bus...

If we do shift away from cars, I wonder how we'll adapt to that in terms of smaller geographical pockets having one of everything a person needs on a regular basis. Even though I live in a major metropolitan area where driving isn't too bad, if I can remember that I'm going to need something a couple of days in advance, it's often worth it in time savings to get it online. I'd rather support local businesses, but finding an extra hour-plus to drive across town in order to pay extra for it isn't something I can do every time. I wonder if shipping will become more ubiquitous, and like a better-used public transit system, become more efficient for going from small place to hub and to another small place, allowing me to buy from the shop across town without having to go there.

I'll start drawing this ramble to a close by relating how, well, "meh" I am about the WRX we got in January. It doesn't have enough character to be much more fun to tool down the street in than the old Civic it replaced, and for 99% of my street driving, I can't really use its best attributes (though I do enjoy the better overall feel). It's almost enough to make me think I don't really care much about driving except for motorsports events or really interesting cars. Or maybe I'm just out of touch with it 'cause my 2002's been sitting for a couple of years. I love that car...

I occasionally have random thoughts of living with just bicycles and public transit, but having a race car "stabled" at the track. Not thoughts of "I'd like to try that" mind you

Related story to the topic. For awhile, the wife and I had her cousin stay with us. He refused to drive for one very important reason. In his earlier years, he was involved in a car accident that took the life of his father and berkeleyed up his "mother" good. Where we lived in town, Lexington, KY BTW, which has a decent bus system, if you were to ride to the mall on it would take 45 minutes if you stayed on our side of the road or 25-30 minutes if you walked to the other side. By car, 8 minutes tops. If you could fix that inequality, you would have more people, hopefully, receptive to mass transit.

I have a 9 year old that is car crazy. I have been teaching her how to shift my car from the passenger side so she can get to understand a manual transmission.

This is a little weak but it does fuel her enthusiasm for cars. She thought it was the greatest thing to drive her own car.

No problems at my house. Just last weekend my 10 year old was showing off "his" Miata to all of his friends. Clearly, we still need to come to an understanding that he will NOT find the car parked in the driveway with a big red bow on it for his 16th birthday, but he's a total car nut and a pretty responsible kid, so I can see him earning the keys over time.

JThw8 wrote:

Javelin wrote: Look at Eupore, they are about 10-15 years ahead of us in this regard (plus a way, way better mass transit infrastructure). Some cities are preparing to ban cars inside them, period.

I'd say due to the mass transit infrastructure alone they are way more than 10-15 years ahead in this regard. It will be a long time before the US is connected enough with mass transit to make cars an afterthought. But my time in Europe recently I could easily see living without a car (I wouldn't like it, but the mass transit availability certainly eliminates the need)

Ahead of us? Hardly. They didnt have a choice for the most part as they couldnt afford personal vehicles, fuel prices are too high, taxes are brutal, tiny little roads and congestion everywhere. America has always been about personal freedom(at least until recently) and people want to drive what and where they want to. I've been to Europe quite a few times. I don't consider being crammed into a smelly bus or train an "improvement". True, access is great and there are many routes. If I was travelling strictly in a congested city it would make sense. Otherwise, no thanks. I've had a much better time while in Europe, when I've rented something cool like an Alfa. Of course, their traffic law enforcement makes spirited driving a bit more difficult. Thankfully, we in the USA, have been fighting back and defeating the evil camera traffic enforcement.

Plenty of kids out here in socal still love cars, BTW.

Less people on the road and less people using gas. I don't see the problem.

Ditto.

Wayyyy too many freedom loving drivers out there who are a menace to our lives.

A lot of kids don't want or need a car. Girls seem particularly interested in avoiding the whole driving adventure. I know a couple who carpooled to high school and then went off to college at more or less self contained campuses. Why bother with the trouble and expense of messing with cars if you have no interest in them?

For those of you that are going to buy some bad assed GRM sporty car for their 16 year old kid, do you know the cost of insuring it? I don't, but I bet it is a lot.

Otto Maddox wrote: For those of you that are going to buy some bad assed GRM sporty car for their 16 year old kid, do you know the cost of insuring it? I don't, but I bet it is a lot.

Depends on the car. I almost bought a Regal T-Type as my first car. It would have cost (full coverage) $460 every 6 months.

Cars are really expensive when you think about it. Especially if you drive something modern with all those safety features your parents want you to have in order to stay alive in those accidents you'll most certainly have in your early years of driving.

Most young people I know work 10-15 hours during the school year and 20 or so during the summer. Employers don't like giving young people (even in college) more than 30 hours a week, regardless of how long they've worked.

That's maybe a $100 per week, $250 tops at minimum wage or slightly above. A new phone costs that much, maybe more, a video game, and a car requires saving, gas ($50 a week) and all kinds of expenditures that aren't easy to pay for.

I'm 27 and I still don't like having to fix my car. I'd rather spend that money on something else. Which is why I'd rather have a fun car again...its worth spending money on.

If I lived in a bigger city with better transportation options (and warmer weather during the winter) I'd probably sell my car.

my sister.. who is 33.. did not learn to drive till she was 30 and found herself living outside of a small town in Mass with NO form of public transportation.

We have two boys, one is 20 and in junior college - which is 25mi away from home. He absolutely refuses to drive unless he doesn't have a ride to work/school(both within walking distance, and his mother works there as well). He very rarely will drive to town alone, even when he really wants to go somewhere.

The other is 18 and only drove to HS(about 10mi away) when he didn't have anyone to take him. He will drive across town, but has no desire to venture out on his own.

We also have two girls. The 15-yr old wants the Miata. And the 12-yr old is pestering me to take her driving.

My neighbor across the street has 4 children, 2 in college and 2 who have graduated from college. Only one of them has a drivers license and vehicle.

The oldest graduated and moved to L.A. where he uses public transportation.

The next graduated from college and is staying at home with a job about 30 miles away. She got her drvers license and bought a vehicle to commute to work.

The third goes to the local community college which is a 10 minute bus ride away.

The fourth is attending a large university in an urban setting where public transportation is readily available.

All thru their high school years they all used public tranportation to get around. Didn't need it for school as the high school is in the next block.

Even though we live in a small city we have a very efficient and well run bus system. The bus system is a "spoke and hub" system where buses make 1/2 hour long loops from the hub to various parts of the city and return to the hub. So the longest it takes to get from one place in the city to another is 1 hour. And you will never have to walk more than two blocks to catch a bus.

I am lucky and live in a location that makes it easy to use the bus system. I can walk 1 1/2 blocks and catch a bus on its return trip that will have me at the hub in 10 minutes. On the return I catch another bus that in 5 minutes from leaving the hub will drop me off in front of my house.

My 21 year old son is pissed I won't teach him stick on my 30,000 mile 15 month old Accord.

Get your own manual trans car to learn on. You might ride the clutch.

Pete240Z wrote: My 21 year old son is pissed I won't teach him stick on my 30,000 mile 15 month old Accord. Get your own manual trans car to learn on. You might ride the clutch.

My strategery is to tell my pupils to get their foot off the clutch and rest it on the floor as soon as they're done shifting. If you aren't using the clutch, your left foot belongs on the floor or dead pedal.

I guess the point of the thread was not well stated.

It is not up for debate if the number of kids driving is going up or down. It is a fact that they are going down.

My question then is." what is going to happen to the car industry as we know it?" Maybe not next year, but say 50-100 years, if the trend continues?

NOHOME wrote: I guess the point of the thread was not well stated. It is not up for debate if the number of kids driving is going up or down. It is a fact that they are going down. My question then is." what is going to happen to the car industry as we know it?" Maybe not next year, but say 50-100 years, if the trend continues?

One more "off topic" post before we get back on track, because you know everyone will get on track.

Public transportation is subsidized everywhere in America that I know of so the more public transportation the more it costs us.