The latest issue, specfically the Sports Car and Z articles...

Hey chaps & chappettes,

I just wanted to let you know what a great job I think you did on this issue. I specifically really enjoyed the Sports Car article and all of the tech depth on the 350Z article. Although I've been around cars and autocross/track long enough to "know" most of the things discussed already, besides the fact that it was a great primer for someone who didn't, I really enjoyed all of the geeking out tech specs comparing power to weight, torque/hp curve vs. speed, etc and the discussion on focusing on the design of a sports car.

Congrats on 30 years!

Norman Garrett is my hero, and reaffirmed my faith in manual transmissions. I will have at least one more before I'm forced to retire my left leg.

That was one of the best articles I've read all year.

Thank you, thank you. We have a heck of a team.

Yes, the Norman Garrett article was a joy to read. Please please please have him write some more articles.

I fully agree!! Great article and a great issue. Nice work!

-Hamid

great article … 'cept I not amused that my 2 SEAT CRX isn't considered a sports car last time on track I was outrunning Miata's …. so there … with a smaller motor

I haven't read the new issue yet. I was out of town when it came. Looking forward to reading it.

Was that the "what I think makes a good sports car" thing?

I couldn't read it. It's all just opinion fluffy stuff. I must be an outlier. I may as well be reading a novel on why blue is the best color.

Maybe so, tuna, but that opinion is coming from the original designer of the Miata. Surely that carries some weight.

jstein77 wrote: Maybe so, tuna, but that opinion is coming from the original designer of the Miata. Surely that carries some weight.

But that's just it, it's his opinion. What if my opinion is that only coupes are sports cars? Am I wrong? If I want to hear about people's opinions, I come to the forum or listen to NPR (ba-zing!), but I don't want four pages of the mag set aside for one guys opinion about something that doesn't matter at all other than how he wants to classify cars.

tuna55 wrote:

jstein77 wrote: Maybe so, tuna, but that opinion is coming from the original designer of the Miata. Surely that carries some weight.

But that's just it, it's his opinion. What if my opinion is that only coupes are sports cars? Am I wrong? If I want to hear about people's opinions, I come to the forum or listen to NPR (ba-zing!), but I don't want four pages of the mag set aside for one guys opinion about something that doesn't matter at all other than how he wants to classify cars.

ehhh....I kinda feel the same way, but given who wrote the article cross referenced against most of the readership - I suspect there's a lot of appreciation for it.

But that doesn't mean I could finish reading the article either.

I did enjoy the 350Z article althogh I've never liked them much.

Wow, you guys are a tough crowd. I loved the article, mainly because it reinforced my old-time values.

Sort of agree with both sides here. First, it was an opinion piece. If you were looking for cold hard facts on "what defines a sports car", if such a thing exists, this wasn't it. BUT, it was the "opinion" of someone who had a huge part in stopping the creep towards pure utility in vehicle design. That's an opinion I'm interested in reading. I remember the cars of the late 80's/early 90's. Most manufacturers were slapping on a few stripes, a crappy "electronic display" and aluminum rims on an ugly, square, bloated, vanilla chassis and saying "Bam, sports car!" I realize that is a bit of a generalization, and that there were exceptions, but that was the general trend at the time. This is someone who said "light, simple, loud, impractical, dynamic chassis, now that's a sports car". As I recall a lot of the "conventional wisdom" of the day was that buyers wanted technology, safety and isolation from the road and that nothing else would sell in numbers sufficient to support production. If that sounds familiar, its because I think the same drift is here today, only with an odd added factor that they buying public seems to want efficiency on one hand and stupid amounts of power on the other. Personally, I hope there are still a few like him in the automotive industry, so that when the 94 Miata in my garage has returned to the earth, I can somehow replace it.

But I guess that's just my opinion.

jstein77 wrote: Maybe so, tuna, but that opinion is coming from the original designer of the Miata. Surely that carries some weight.

He's only famous because we know who he is. Would you put the same weight on the opinion of the guy who designed the Sprite? Or the Alfa or Fiat Spiders? Or the S2000? Wonder what Colin Chapman's view of this is....

Some would say that a Sports car should only be for sport (think sports racers and prototypes). So would say it shoud be 2 doors but fun (the people who think Mustangs are sports cars. Some don't care as long as the car is sporting to drive (the 4 door BMW and Alfa fans). Of course the designer of a 2 seat convertible will think his car is THE example of a sports car. As would the Vette and BRZ designer.

Just opinions.

Just finished the 350Z article. Even though I've never been a fan of those cars and I have no serious autocross ambitions, it was still a great read. Yes, I know a lot of it already, but it was well-presented and interesting.

Really enjoyed the sports car article, too. I don't necessarily agree with his definition, but so what? His points were well-argued, and it's a semantic point, anyhow, so who really cares?

wbjones wrote: great article … 'cept I not amused that my 2 SEAT CRX isn't considered a sports car last time on track I was outrunning Miata's …. so there … with a smaller motor

Having owned a '85 CRX SI, I have to agree. I have had as much sports car fun in my old CRX as in any traditional sports car I've owned. And I've owned a lot of them!

Rupert wrote:

wbjones wrote: great article … 'cept I not amused that my 2 SEAT CRX isn't considered a sports car last time on track I was outrunning Miata's …. so there … with a smaller motor

Having owned a '85 CRX SI, I have to agree. I have had as much sports car fun in my old CRX as in any traditional sports car I've owned. And I've owned a lot of them!

I concur. Having owned a few of the classics (e30, miata, e36), the CRX still holds a special place in my heart. I'll probably own another one eventually. Loved almost everything about that car (except FWD).

oh, it's not that I haven't owned "real" sports cars … a Sunbeam Alpine and a Jaguar XKE ….

that z article made me miss my 2006 track package sooo much. even at a lowly 300 hp it had plenty of power and torque. All it was missing was me having time to race...

oh and the brembos had horrible pad knockback. (it's a common issue with the "better" brakes). you have to touch the brakes just slightly going into a corner to seat the pad again, then apply brakes for the turn. else the pedal would go halfway to the floor before brakes would engage...

Seems to me that his opinion of what makes a sportscar is just a list of the attributes of the Miata. Seems a bit self-serving. If Mazda had asked him to design the Miata with a fastback vice vert, would he still be so adamant that sportscars should have a convertible top?

irish44j wrote: Seems to me that his opinion of what makes a sportscar is just a list of the attributes of the Miata.

Well, duh, since he probably decided what the attributes of the Miata would be based on what he thought should go into a sportscar

Then again, I haven't gotten my issue yet so I haven't read the article

jsquared wrote:

irish44j wrote: Seems to me that his opinion of what makes a sportscar is just a list of the attributes of the Miata.

Well, duh, since he probably decided what the attributes of the Miata would be *based on what he thought should go into a sportscar* Then again, I haven't gotten my issue yet so I haven't read the article

Well yeah....but approximately 99.5% of all GRM readers already own a Miata already, so the "top-10" list is just feelgood fluff that pretty much everyone is going to agree with. If you or I had made a "top 10 attributes of a sportscar", we most likely would have listed the exact same things as Garrett did. No special insight there.

That said, I VERY MUCH enjoyed the second part of the article discussing the design process and thoughts that go into it. I wish it had gotten all 7 pages of the article, with even more detail.

jstein77 wrote: Maybe so, tuna, but that opinion is coming from the original designer of the Miata. Surely that carries some weight.

Garrett was a packaging engineer on the original Miata, BTW. Not "the designer". In fact, I'm pretty sure he put together a proposal for the Miata that was basically the Ford Capri - a FWD car based on the 323. He left Mazda to form the Miata Club of America, which made him a fairly prominent member of the design team in the public eye.

Haven't read the article or even cracked the issue yet - it's been one of those months with little time to sit and read. I'll hopefully get a chance soon.

I've got a 1990 Miata and a CRX. They're both sports cars. Sports cars are like pornography. Can't define it, but I know them when I see them.

The reason a CRX isnt a sports car is that it's just too darned practical. You can hall manner of things in the back of a CRX and get great gas mileage to boot. It is also based on a larger 4 passenger car. I've always made the argument that a "sports car" is a car that isn't practical for anything beyond "sports". A miata isn't good at moving into a dorm, or hauling a keg, a CRX is excellent at both. I've owned a CRX and they are great sporty car, just not a "sports car"

I do disagree about the convertible thing, the 240Z was never available as a convertible but was absolutely a sports car. Also the weight mentioned in the article would have been an end of production weight early cars were 2150 lbs. The early miata and the early 240z are nearly identical in weight, wheelbase, and track width but the Z had a heck of a lot more HP and TQ. The 280ZX, 300ZX (Z31 and Z32),350Z and 370z are GT cars, a sports car burdened with loads of extra weight in the name of comfort, convenience and safety.