The most fun cars to drive I've ever experienced were mid 70s to mid 80s cheap Toyotas. I love the E70. The AE86 is magical. The AW11 is glorious. The Celicas of that era were super fun and the RWD Starlet is one of my dream cars. That era of Toyota largely went away in the mid 80s (except the MR2) when it mostly switched to FWD. Obviously weridos like me are not the core of the cheap new car buying market, but I wonder how much it would have cost in packaging, friction, manufacturing and safety to maintain those magical chassis dynamics in slow, cheap economy cars.
It clearly cost enough in packaging, economy, and speed of assembly that Toyota went for it with gusto.
Nissan kept at rear drive cars for a loooong time with mostly the same chassis just stretched wider or longer as necessary, and when they did an update they managed to share between transverse front-drive and longitudinal rear/all wheel drive, and now they are Renault's Japanese arm, and I suspect they only continue to make cars because it gives them something to finance...
For what it's worth the truly sporty FWD Toyotas that replaced them were actually pretty good, and are quite well liked in the parts of the world they were sold, we just didn't buy enough of them so Toyota largely gave up on bringing them here. Lots of neat stuff like the AE101/111 Corollas with the 20v 4AGE, ST202 Celica with the "Super Strut" suspension and Beams 3SGE, etc.
ShawnG
UltimaDork
3/20/21 9:25 a.m.
Toyota died for me when the Celica went FWD.
So hilarious how people always bag on fwd and worship rwd. The uninformed masses. There are fwd cars that will race CIRCLES around your rwd car everyday. And yes, some of those rwd would be 80's toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc.
^Toyotas aren't about numbers
What's the top car pictured?
The FWD cars may be faster, but I too feel sad that there are no cheap RWD econo cars to be had after approx 1985.
No longer here. said:
So hilarious how people always bag on fwd and worship rwd. The uninformed masses. There are fwd cars that will race CIRCLES around your rwd car everyday. And yes, some of those rwd would be 80's toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc.
They may be faster, but that doesn't mean I'd necessarily prefer driving it. On the street, the dynamics of RWD just feel / work better IMO. And call me strange, but I can't stand FWD in snow.
In reply to CyberEric :
AE111 Toyota Corolla Levin. Basically a two door version of the Corolla sedan we are all familiar with, but with good suspension, a 20v 4AGE, 6-speed, and LSD.
I used to love driving my friend's '77 3 door Corolla with 2TC and a manual. Probably 70hp, but easy to get sideways on a dirt road.
ShawnG
UltimaDork
3/20/21 5:35 p.m.
No longer here. said:
So hilarious how people always bag on fwd and worship rwd. The uninformed masses. There are fwd cars that will race CIRCLES around your rwd car everyday. And yes, some of those rwd would be 80's toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc.
This is the same forum that tells people "drive what you like, who cares what other people think".
I like my fun cars to be RWD. Simple.
You get down with your bad self.
No longer here. said:
So hilarious how people always bag on fwd and worship rwd. The uninformed masses. There are fwd cars that will race CIRCLES around your rwd car everyday. And yes, some of those rwd would be 80's toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc.
RWD Toyotas, to me, were so fun in part because they made it exciting to drive at normal speeds. You know, kind of how a Miata is more fun than a Mercedes S Class even though it's slower.
BTW, there are exciting FWD cars too. EG/EK Civics and Minis come to mind right away.
In reply to pointofdeparture :
That Levin looks tasty.
mblommel said:
I used to love driving my friend's '77 3 door Corolla with 2TC and a manual. Probably 70hp, but easy to get sideways on a dirt road.
For me those just have perfect steering and are so easy to place with precision. Like "I would like to be sliding 6 degress while I put the front inside tire over that particular blade of grass."
Tom1200
SuperDork
3/20/21 11:10 p.m.
I've raced a rwd Corolla and my wife had a fwd Corolla which we autocrossed it once. I found both cars to be quite chuckable.
ShawnG
UltimaDork
3/20/21 11:51 p.m.
We all know, FWD or RWD, nothing is faster than a rental car.
Its obvious you guys never drove a 510 if you are all warm and fuzzy about Corolla.
Streetwiseguy said:
Its obvious you guys never drove a 510 if you are all warm and fuzzy about Corolla.
I've owned both and I agree. The Corolla was fun, but nose heavy. The 510 was a whole 'nother level.
ShawnG
UltimaDork
3/21/21 4:45 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:
Its obvious you guys never drove a 510 if you are all warm and fuzzy about Corolla.
I tried but they were all rotten by the time I got to them.
From owning a few of both, the only Japanese car that rusted faster than a Toyota was a Datsun.
Streetwiseguy said:
Its obvious you guys never drove a 510 if you are all warm and fuzzy about Corolla.
I've not. Are they as magical as their reputation suggests?
This is probably rose tinted glasses (first car was an E70), but I liked my Corolla more than I liked a 914, and I drove those back to back.
I'm just happy to be part of an uninformed mass.
I have to say, the exhibition of decorum in this thread is (while not unexpected with this group) beyond reproach.
510s were rusty, light, irs, and had a far, far zippier engine. The L16 was a little gem for its time. They revved more freely than any Toyota engine until the ae86 twincam, I'd say. Add a cam, and a pair of su's and they'd run 7500 with not much else done. Webers, the moon is in reach.
Go to YouTube and watch some of the trans am stuff from the day.
I really need to get mine patched up and running.
In 1969 or 70 a buddy and I drove up to Le Circuit - Mont Tremblant to watch the Trans-Am races. Of course we were expecting the American V8 cars, but I fell in love with the Datsuns and Alfas that day. Fast forward to my graduation from university a few years later and I have a $600 tax refund and need a car, so I bout a used '71 510 in May of 1976. This is in Quebec, the road salt capital of the world, so the car had rust holes in the rockers the day I bought it. I loved that little car and drove it until Fred Flintstone could drive it. I always maintained a 2nd "winter beater" car, so after the death of the 510 I bought a couple of $100 Corollas and made one decent winter car from the two. The Corolla was a fun appliance, but the 510 was a fun car, much different as Streetwiseguy pointed out.
No longer here. said:
So hilarious how people always bag on fwd and worship rwd. The uninformed masses. There are fwd cars that will race CIRCLES around your rwd car everyday. And yes, some of those rwd would be 80's toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc.
Did we just find our Civic type R guy?
