Thinking about selling my weekend car... thoughts?

I'm seeking advice from wise GRM-ers who have likely been down a similar road before. I currently have 2 cars in my garage (not counting the wife's car): 

-My daily driver is a 2017 Ford Focus RS. I currently have a loan/moderate car payment on my FoRS. This is my "it does everything" car. It gets me to work most days, drives my kids to school, fits my dog in the trunk, it has dedicated snow wheels/tires to get me through Colorado winters, etc. 

-My weekend car is a 2007 Honda S2000. This car is paid off. It has only 31k miles on the odometer and is in pristine condition, garage kept, well maintained, etc. 

I'm thinking about selling my S2000 for several reasons: 

-If I sold the S2000, I could use the money to drastically reduce what I owe on my Focus RS (I could almost pay it off). Within a year, I could get rid of having a car payment altogether. Whereas if I kept the S2000 and just continued to make payments on the FoRS, it would take another ~4.5 years to pay it off.  

-I was recently promoted at work, which is a good thing overall, but my hours and days off changed pretty drastically. As a result, I don't drive my S2000 as often as I used to. I used to work weekends and come in during late mornings, so I would cruise to work once/twice a week in it when there was no traffic, it was light outside and I could have some fun with the top down! I would also take it to run errands on my days off when the wife was at work and the kids were at school. I now have a more normal/traditional schedule, which is great for the family, but driving the S2000 to work in early morning rush hour traffic isn't terribly appealing (cold and dark outside= I'm not putting the top down) and my days off are now filled with hauling the family around; which the S2000 can't accommodate. So, it now mostly just sits in the garage as I continue to pay for full coverage insurance on it.

Truly, when it comes to driving in traffic/commuting, the Focus RS is the car I want to take as a general rule. The S2000 has great visibility with the top down, but when it's dark/cold outside, running around with the top up means you can't see a damn thing! The FoRS also has massive amounts of torque everywhere, making it the easier car to get around traffic in; whereas you really need to rev the S2000 out to get it to move.

Initially, I was planning on using my S2000 as a weekend car that saw occasional track/autoX events. However, after tracking it a couple of times this summer, I became pretty hesitant about continuing to track such a nice, low mileage, extremely clean car. Mostly, the thought of wrecking or damaging it on track kept me from wanting to push the car hard, or make track days a regular thing. I understand that I can purchase track day insurance, and I think that's a smart route to go; but it does drive up costs substantially, making it harder for me to justify the cost of track days. 

I'm also very hesitant to modify the car to make it more fun/interesting due to it's value (the late model DBW 2006-2009 S2000's have really held their value and almost seem to be appreciating). I don't like the idea of running a large wing on the trunk, or a splitter on the front of the car, or rolling the fenders, etc. I had no problem modifying and tracking my old NA Miata because it wasn't worth much and I didn't care what it looked like. I don't feel the same with about my S2000. It's a nice car and I would want to keep it nice. 

So, since I now have weekends off for the first time in years, I was planning on going autoX-ing in the S2000 next season via my regional chapter. I've done a decent amount of autoX in the past (although it's been years) and I feel comfortable taking a nicer car to dodge cones without worrying about wrecking it, or breaking things. The cost of entry is lower than track days, the risk is substantially lower, I wouldn't go through consumables nearly as fast, and it's not nearly as hard on the car (30-60 second lower speed cone-courses vs multiple 20+ minute lapping sessions). Since I didn't plan on modifying the S2000, I was just going to run the car in SCCA B-Street, but then I realized something... 

...the Focus RS is also classed in B-Street and based on Nationals results, it looks like the FoRS is likely the quicker car (vs the S2000). The more I thought about it, I wasn't opposed to taking both my FoRS and my S2000 out to autoX events and seeing how they compared to each other. But then it hit me: if I'm comfortable autoX-ing the FoRS, is there any real reason to keep the S2000? If I sold my S2000, I could be debt-free within a year (sans my mortgage) and still have a car I could have fun autoX-ing...

To be clear, I could care less about which of the 2 cars is faster on an autoX course. Getting that last tenth of a second doesn't concern me; I'm just looking to have a good time and try to improve as a driver; so either car will do. 

With all of the above listed, it may seem that I'm heavily skewed towards getting rid of the S2000, but if I'm being honest with myself, there are still several reasons to keep the S2000: 

-On a beautiful, sunny day with the top down on my favorite canyon road, the S2000 is just magical! It's the 2nd most fun canyon carver I've ever driven (2nd only to a 987 Porsche Boxster S I had the pleasure of piloting a while back). Unfortunately, I only run through the canyons 1-2 times a year. 

-I love drop-tops! I don't have much of a chance to enjoy the top down here lately, but I do appreciate it when the time comes. 

-My 9 year old son loves the S2000. He doesn't care that the FoRS is faster, or does more things... he just loves the S2000. I don't make a whole lot of decisions based on emotion, but this one is hard to ignore. 

-8200rpm! No, it doesn't rev as high as the AP1, but above 6000rpm it just sounds glorious! It love the pops/burbles/crackles that my FoRS makes, but the engine in the S2000 is just a gem. 

-My S2000 is a legitimately nice, well kept, dedicated sports car and it's paid off... there's always a chance that I might come to regret selling it down the line. It's truly a special car and I'm not too blind to recognize that. 

If I sold the S2000, I would end up autoX-ing my FoRS and paying it off within a year. After I paid off the FoRS, I would likely buy a cheap beater track car- likely another Miata or an E36. Something I could modify to hell, put a cage in and be able to walk away if I wrecked it on a race track... 

With all of that, I'm a bit conflicted and seeking thoughts/advice. 

What says the hive-mind?

Debt free is the answer.   Sell. 

I'd say sell it. No point in paying for something you aren't getting enjoyment out of.

Sell.  Plus track days in an open car without a rollbar isn't a good idea.  Most the local track organizations won't let you run anyways.

Since the FoRS will do auto-x just as well (and maybe better) than the S2000, there's no reason to keep it.

Sell it, pay off the FoRS, then get a true track car.  I'm partial to the E36's, my E36 M3 track car is literally sitting outside my office right now.

Let me know if you ever want to check it out, I live in Denver too.

If you can't make time to drive the S2k, are you really going to be able to make time for a project?...Or will you really be able to make more time for taking a dedicated track car to track days than you can make time to drive the S2k on the street and take it to autox's? 

Lets say that in 5 years it's essentially a wash financially, with a paid off FoRS and either a track rat and a little cash or an S2k...During that time are you more interested in having a car to work on or a car to drive?  Will you spend more time going to track days or driving on the street/autox?  Is sharing the experience with your kid(s) a factor, and if so, which would you be more likely to do so with?

If not enjoying the S2k street/autox experience as much as track driving is why you aren't making the time for it, that's one thing and I say sell it.  But if you're like me where your life revolves around your family, and wouldn't have it any other way, and that's leaving little time for *your* hobby...Then I don't see how trading the S2k for a track rat will help.

Personally, I think I'd stick with it...At least for now.  You can change your mind later a lot easier from this point, than after you've already sold it.  Making the time to autox in general already means you'd be making more time to drive it  anyways.  Beyond that, going for weekend drives outside the city with my dad in his TR6, and grabbing a bite to eat at a country diner, are some of my fondest memories as a kid.  So for me, that's one of the  biggest reasons I want my convertible to be a street car, because that in and of itself is one of the best excuses to make more time to drive it.

Driven5 said:

If you can't make time to drive the S2k, are you really going to be able to make time for a project?...Or will you really be able to make more time for taking a dedicated track car to track days than you can make time to drive the S2k on the street and take it to autox's? 

Lets say that in 5 years it's essentially a wash financially...In that time are you more interested in having a car to work on or a car to drive?  Will you spend more time going to track days or driving on the street/autox?  Is sharing the experience with your kid(s) a factor, and if so, which would you be more likely to do so with?

If not enjoying the S2k street/autox experience as much as track driving is why you aren't making the time for it, that's one thing and I say sell it.  But if you're like me where your life revolves around your family, and wouldn't have it any other way, and that's leaving little time for *your* hobby...Then I don't see how trading the S2k for a track rat will help.

Personally, I think I'd stick with it...At least for now.  You can change your mind later a lot easier from this point, than after you've already sold it.  Making the time to autox in general already means you'd be making more time to drive it  anyways.  Going for weekend drives outside the city with my dad in his TR6, and grabbing a bite to eat at a country diner, are some of my fondest memories as a kid.  So for me, that's one of the  biggest reasons I want my convertible to be a street car, and that in and of itself is one of the best excuses to make more time to drive it.

I can make time to drive the S2000, I just haven't been. On a daily commute, I prefer the FoRS for reasons listed above. I've taken the S2000 to canyon cruises after things like cars and coffee a couple times; but the last couple times I went, I took the FoRS. My son loves to ride in the S2000, but he doesn't get many opportunities due to the fact that I have 2 kids and if him and I take off for the day, it leads to his sister feeling pretty left out. That leaves me having to listen to how unhappy the wife is about it... 

I devote lots of time to my family, and attend soccer/basketball games, school plays, etc as often as I can. With that said, I do have my own solo hobbies. The wife has her own hobbies/interests as well, so she generally doesn't give me a hard time when it comes to what I choose to do with my free time. It's a balance. 

I planned on making time to drive the S2000 to autoX events next year... but I can still go autoX and have a good time in the FoRS; while aggressively working towards being debt free. 

I don't know if I would be any "happier" with a track rat car, but if I want to spend more time on a race track, it seems to make more sense, at least financially. Reducing my debt would allow me to throw more money into retirement and/or paying down my mortgage, more money into family vacations and more money into hobbies like autoX and track days... 

I agree that having a convertible street car can help make some great memories with my son. On the opposite side of the coin, him and I building a project car sometime down the road can also make for some great memories. 

I'd pay attention to your S2k's value and if it is appreciating I have see some S2ks go for stupid money. With it being paid off you might find that its appreciating as something faster than the Focus RS loan's interest you would be paying down.

This is assuming you have left the S2K stock if you are already modding it then just sell it.

Haven't read anyone else's suggestion.

Sell that bish and pay down the FoRS. Huge fan of being debt-free or close to it.

Sure the S2k is cool and paid off, buuuttt you can do as much or more in the RS (minus the drop top).

Why are you keeping full-coverage insurance on it if you only get to drive it very occasionally? This extra cost could be used to pay down the FoRS as well. 

I don't drive my S2000 that much either, but my recent exercise on whether to keep or sell was ruled by emotion. For usable fun there isn't much that I would replace the S2000 with, and what cars could replace it is at a price point higher than I will likely ever afford in my lifetime. It is paid off, and from what I'm seeing the resale values are only increasing on stock or lightly modified examples.

sobe_death said:

Why are you keeping full-coverage insurance on it if you only get to drive it very occasionally? This extra cost could be used to pay down the FoRS as well. 

I don't drive my S2000 that much either, but my recent exercise on whether to keep or sell was ruled by emotion. For usable fun there isn't much that I would replace the S2000 with, and what cars could replace it is at a price point higher than I will likely ever afford in my lifetime. It is paid off, and from what I'm seeing the resale values are only increasing on stock or lightly modified examples.

 

Because it's a car worth north of $20k and only carrying liability on something that valuable seems silly? Unless he just has that money in cash laying around for just to take care of it if something happens. I'd want it protected as well.

What is your address?  I'll drive across the country to pick up the S2000.

3rd option - to me, the Focus RS is kind of an overkill daily driver. Sell it, keep the S2k to autocross, and get something that is fun and paid off for the street. Maybe a MkV GTI?

The advantage here is that the S2000 will probably not really go down in value if maintained. So if you are not driving it a lot and keeping it up, your opportunity costs to keep it are low. 

Mixed bag of feelings on this one. Concerns about being debt free after recently opting in to a ~40k car loan are dubious. What was it about the Focus RS that you think won't happen again once you're debt free? If something equally latest and greatest pops up, are you right back in to debt on the new hotness? I'm not dinging the RS as a car, but things are improving rapidly in the new car world and it's not crazy to think that something that fits your needs even better might pop up to tempt you in 2 years. If you think of it as using the s2k to solve a problem you created with the RS, you have to think about preventing future occurrences of the RS.  If it doesn't hurt you to sit on the s2k, i'd just drop the insurance and all pretense of driving it, throw a cover on it, and ignore it other than whatever your idea of mechanical upkeep during storage is. Job situations, for better or worse, are less reliable then loan bills and you may find yourself in a different situation where the S2k's attributes are very valuable to you again. At that point it may cost you much more to replace it than to let it take up a garage spot. I think the car's appreciation will more than pay for what it costs you to sit on it if you're not paying registration/insurance/etc.  I'd only sell it to pay down the RS if you honestly think the RS was a one-time financial whoopsie that you're just riding out because you like the car, but that you don't think will happen again once it's paid off. 

In regards to all the 'debt free' comments, lets also not confuse debt and monthly obligations.  Paying off the FoRS with proceeds from selling the S2k is more about reducing monthly obligations than it is about focusing on reducing long term debt or increasing net worth. Not that there is anything inherently wrong with that, but lets call a spade a spade.  If any significant portion of that monthly 'savings' over the next 4.5 years goes towards a track rat and some vacationing, as opposed to only towards retirement investments and/or mortgage principle, chances are it's financially a short term gain for a long term loss.  

It also still takes money to cage and 'modify to hell' even a cheap beater track car.  If all the S2k money went into paying down the FoRS, the track rat money still has to come from somewhere, and is going to take time to accumulate before even starting on it. So it's trading a monthly obligation on the FoRS for a monthly obligation on the track rat, even if that is a smaller and/or more flexible obligation...And it's using money that was in a mildly appreciating (or at least minimally depreciating after expenses) asset to effectively self-finance something that is usually worth pennies on the dollar in the long run is just a different way to enjoy throwing money away.

Honestly, if financials are a primary consideration in this decision, I'd be questioning the FoRS more than the S2k.

z31maniac said:

sobe_death said:

Why are you keeping full-coverage insurance on it if you only get to drive it very occasionally? This extra cost could be used to pay down the FoRS as well. 

I don't drive my S2000 that much either, but my recent exercise on whether to keep or sell was ruled by emotion. For usable fun there isn't much that I would replace the S2000 with, and what cars could replace it is at a price point higher than I will likely ever afford in my lifetime. It is paid off, and from what I'm seeing the resale values are only increasing on stock or lightly modified examples.

 

Because it's a car worth north of $20k and only carrying liability on something that valuable seems silly? Unless he just has that money in cash laying around for just to take care of it if something happens. I'd want it protected as well.

Bingo. Most similar condition and mileage DBW AP2's like mine seem to be selling for around $25k. Last time I checked, I think the difference between full coverage and liability was ~$30/month, which is well worth it for my peace of mind.

Having liability only on a car of it's value just seems like a bad idea waiting to happen. Liability doesn't cover things like hit and run accidents (I've had it happen to me), hail damage (I've been caught in a couple unexpected hail storms), stolen vehicles, uninsured motorists, or if I happen to not pay attention for a split second and find myself at fault in an accident. Well worth it to protect my investment. 

In reply to roninsoldier83 :

Damn, only $30 different?!...that makes my first question moot. Who is your provider, if I might ask? State Farm charges me over $90 more per month for MY05 to have full coverage vs. comprehensive, and just jacked it up another $11 for "Colorado Theft Prevention Authority Assessment" last month. 

Wrap pristine s2k in hermetically sealed container.

Enjoy the FoRS.

In 9 years unwrap s2k.

Sell s2k.

Pay for your sons 4 years of college with what you get for pristine 31k mile s2k in 2027.

szeis4cookie said:

3rd option - to me, the Focus RS is kind of an overkill daily driver. Sell it, keep the S2k to autocross, and get something that is fun and paid off for the street. Maybe a MkV GTI?

I prefer AWD vehicles for a daily, just due to the fact that it snows here, but that's not a bad idea. Before my Focus RS, I had a VW Golf R- great car, I only sold it after I started having an issue with the car randomly turning itself off for no apparent reason. Car was bone stock and the dealer couldn't replicate the problem.  

Here in the Denver, CO area, sporty AWD cars don't hardly depreciate. 13 year old EVO's and STI's still go for over $20k, beat to hell, with 150k miles on the clock! Used Audi's and non-turbo Subaru's go for pretty cheap, but they're not what I would consider fun to drive. I've went down the "boring daily driver" path before and didn't care for it. 

When it comes to sporty AWD cars, there aren't many to choose from that I could reasonably afford: WRX/STI, EVO, Golf R and the Focus RS. I prefer hatchbacks these days, so EVO's and new WRX/STI's are off the list. After being around Subaru's for many years, I have no interest in another one, especially an older WRX/STI hatch. I've owned a Golf R, again, great car, but there isn't much cost savings there and after my last one, I have some serious reliability concerns. 

For the record, the FoRS has been pretty easy for me to live with. Years ago, after getting out of the military in 2006, I had a 2006 STI, and I can tell you, the FoRS is substantially easier to live with in almost every way! It's not as comfortable as a luxury car, but it's not the nightmare the internet would have you believe. It doesn't like concrete expansion joints, haha, but beyond that, it's not bad at all.    

sobe_death said:

In reply to roninsoldier83 :

Damn, only $30 different?!...that makes my first question moot. Who is your provider, if I might ask? State Farm charges me over $90 more per month for MY05 to have full coverage vs. comprehensive, and just jacked it up another $11 for "Colorado Theft Prevention Authority Assessment" last month. 

I'm with USAA. That's with a $1000 deductible, rental car declined, etc.  

bmw88rider said:

The advantage here is that the S2000 will probably not really go down in value if maintained. So if you are not driving it a lot and keeping it up, your opportunity costs to keep it are low. 

I agree with that, the costs to keep it are relatively low. The car isn't really depreciating. It might even be appreciating, but not fast enough that it'll ever actually make me any money. I still have to pay for insurance, registration, maintenance, etc; which all add up to more than it could possibly appreciate in the coming years.   

roninsoldier83 said:

My son loves to ride in the S2000, but he doesn't get many opportunities due to the fact that I have 2 kids and if him and I take off for the day, it leads to his sister feeling pretty left out.

But I'm sure she also likes having you to herself doing something she loves for a day though.

roninsoldier83 said:

I agree that having a convertible street car can help make some great memories with my son. On the opposite side of the coin, him and I building a project car sometime down the road can also make for some great memories. 

That sounds like a great time to build a track rat.

Vigo said:

Mixed bag of feelings on this one. Concerns about being debt free after recently opting in to a ~40k car loan are dubious. What was it about the Focus RS that you think won't happen again once you're debt free? If something equally latest and greatest pops up, are you right back in to debt on the new hotness? I'm not dinging the RS as a car, but things are improving rapidly in the new car world and it's not crazy to think that something that fits your needs even better might pop up to tempt you in 2 years. If you think of it as using the s2k to solve a problem you created with the RS, you have to think about preventing future occurrences of the RS.  If it doesn't hurt you to sit on the s2k, i'd just drop the insurance and all pretense of driving it, throw a cover on it, and ignore it other than whatever your idea of mechanical upkeep during storage is. Job situations, for better or worse, are less reliable then loan bills and you may find yourself in a different situation where the S2k's attributes are very valuable to you again. At that point it may cost you much more to replace it than to let it take up a garage spot. I think the car's appreciation will more than pay for what it costs you to sit on it if you're not paying registration/insurance/etc.  I'd only sell it to pay down the RS if you honestly think the RS was a one-time financial whoopsie that you're just riding out because you like the car, but that you don't think will happen again once it's paid off. 

Extremely valid points, sir. To be honest, I've [foolishly] had a car payment for the past ~15 years or so. Up until recently, I've all but resigned myself to just budgeting for a car payment long term. Recently, there have been some significant changes in my life that have caused me to re-think my financial situation. While I don't share my career online, I will say that my profession is extremely stable; especially my newly acquired position. That's not a concern in the least. I can say that barring some major unforeseen calamity, I should have stable employment for the next 25+ years. 

However, some things in my personal life have been teetering back and forth here lately; which, if they went one way, it could mean my financial situation would not be as comfortable as it is right now. That's actually what prompted me to consider selling the S2000. Otherwise, I had no intention of ever selling it. 

In truth, if I sold the S2000, I would re-finance the FoRS for substantially less than I currently owe on it; which would reduce my monthly payment drastically. If my current financial situation stayed the same, I would use the monthly savings to aggressively pay down/pay off the FoRS in about a year. If my financial situation changed, having the lower payment would give me more room to breathe and continue to pay my bills. 

If things change in my life, I wouldn't need my current house, but in order to avoid getting hit with the capital gains tax, I would have to continue paying my considerable mortgage (on a single income vs current dual incomes) until at least December 2018. If that happens, it won't even be a question, I'll absolutely be selling the S2000... but in the meantime, it forced me to answer the question: do I really need the S2000? How much is it really worth to me? 

I'm giving my current personal situation about a 50/50% chance, but even if everything stays the same, I'm recognizing that having a playtoy car when I already have a fun daily driver, might not be in my best interests; specifically when I don't gain much use out of said playtoy car and still owe money on my daily. Hence the thread. 

I don't typically share details in my personal life, but this is where I'm at.  

Ovid_and_Flem said:

Wrap pristine s2k in hermetically sealed container.

Enjoy the FoRS.

In 9 years unwrap s2k.

Sell s2k.

Pay for your sons 4 years of college with what you get for pristine 31k mile s2k in 2027.

 Haha! Well played, sir!

If I'm going to wrap up the S2000, just to sell it one day, I might as well just sell it now and reinvest the money in something with a higher yield! The insurance/registration/maintenance cost me far more than it will ever appreciate. I suppose I could cancel the insurance and not pay the registration, but I would still need to maintain it, and in my experience, things are more likely to start going wrong if a car just sits for too long... my current portfolio has been a far more lucrative investment than my 10 year old Honda, haha! Just seems to me, there are better ways to help my kiddo pay for his college. 

If I decide to keep the car, I would want to drive it.

Sell the S2000, buy a cheap C5 Corvette. You'll have plenty of money left over and you'll have a sports car with tons of torque that's actually daily drivable (big trunk, reasonably comfortable, cheap to maintain). I'm personally biased though.