Thought exercise- Feasibility of making unavailable replacement parts?

If you've ever watched Jay Leno's Garage you've seen he has all the crazy awesome stuff in the world, including the equipment to fab parts for stuff that no longer exist. With the constant march forward of 3d printers and the like, when will discontinued parts start being made by non-rich people in larger numbers? Say you have a super rare car that nobody makes parts for (or cares to make parts for) and you need a bunch of new parts, like plastic body parts to transmission parts? I've found a bunch of places online offering custom moving parts, like transmissions, gears, valves, pretty much everything that moves, but they mainly seem geared (heh) towards building motorsports type products. I suppose i could ask if they would be able to do something a bit more like a replica OEM part, but i don't want to waste their time with an email for a curiosity!

I think one of Leno's episodes shows him scanning the old part into a cad program, fixing the broken thing, printing it in plastic, sending that somewhere for casting/machining, then he put that on the steam car or whatever it was. That sounds like it costs more per-part than anything I drive.

I'm assuming anything is possible on a Jay Leno budget, but what kind of stuff is available on a more 'I drive an old van because it was free' budget?

The older the car the easier it is. A car that was made in 1918 used 100 year old machining techniques, and with advances in technology and the reduction in machine costs, you may very well be able to recreate that part yourself better than the original part was in your garage with your own tools.

A car from the 80's though, I bet you could make most of it, but not all, on the cheap.

I see a market soon for retrofit electrical modules using much more reliable electronics, for example. If you can recreate the module that controls electronic digital dashboards for example with a simple microcontroller, that is easily feasible for cheap in your own house with standard available stuff today.

Yes. It will get easier and cheaper to the point where a hobbyist can by a good metal 3D printer like we buy TIG welders today. I am not sure if this is two, five or ten years out, but not much more than that.

The cottage industry already exists. Check out our friend Jeff at Advanced Distributors:

http://advanceddistributors.mybisi.com/product/4-cylinder-ignition-rotor

He needed a better replacement distributor rotor for Lucas units. He couldn't find what he wanted, so he found someone who could make exactly what he wanted.

Wasn't there a GRM article recently on casting urethane parts at home? That's pretty practical for no-budget plastic items.

MadScientistMatt wrote: Wasn't there a GRM article recently on casting urethane parts at home? That's pretty practical for no-budget plastic items.

There was. Plus we have something cooking on 3D printers.

You might say the day was always here, for certain values of "discontinued parts" and "non-rich." Over time we can include more parts and lower the "non-rich" bar.

3D printing is lowering the "non-rich" bar drastically for making small plastic parts. I'd estimate fabbing a whole replacement dash for around the same cost a new one would go for from the factory is about 10 years away.

Really depends on what you are doing - want to make a simple fiber or copper gasket? Lay it out with a $20 digital caliper, draw it up on a free 2D CAD program, and send the CAD file to your friendly waterjet guy. $20 plus materials and you have your gasket.

Making the rubber seals for a targa top from an 80s car? Could probably do it, but would have to be done in 3D modelling with real software (not Google Sketch Up), find a competent vendor, build a mold, etc. You would have thousands just in the seal. Maybe be able to print it, but I dont know if there is a material. out there that will be easily 3D printed and provide a decent life expectancy. And then you will probably have 40 hours in CAD just to figure the darn thing out, vs a gasket that would take anyone halfway talented about 20 minutes to spin out.

Rebuilding electronics are a frequent topic of conversation on the Corvette boards. Some of the early C5s are prone to module failure, and GM does not supply parts. The source of good used parts is drying up, no one has identified how to fix the module, some of the integrated circuits are NLA/custom build 20 years ago for a company that no longer exists. Since the module that fails controls the ABS/Traction/Active Handling, no aftermarket guys want to touch it due to liability. Don't know how we will get around that one. Pro Tip - buy a 2002 or later C5

David S. Wallens wrote:

MadScientistMatt wrote: Wasn't there a GRM article recently on casting urethane parts at home? That's pretty practical for no-budget plastic items.

There was. Plus we have something cooking on 3D printers.

As a 3D printer owner, I'd be happy to help/contribute/distract any way I can.

wow some parts are unavailable for a C5? Why do I think that is a newer car? What i had in mind was more 80's car type stuff, fortunately nothing with active computerized anything. Even more fortunately the only 80's car i have (at the moment) is a ford truck and i can find pretty much everything i need for that easily.

You bring up a good point about electronics, i assume newer electronics will be harder to fix, right? I learned a bit of circuit board repair and soldering on some 90's appliances (like actual appliances, not cars) from my dad the repair man, but today nobody repairs the boards, just replace only. I still imagine those 80's dashboards are a bit of a 'pray it doesn't break' kind of thing, right?:

David S. Wallens wrote:

MadScientistMatt wrote: Wasn't there a GRM article recently on casting urethane parts at home? That's pretty practical for no-budget plastic items.

There was. Plus we have something cooking on 3D printers.

Do you happen to know which issue? i might have to find that.

The 3D printer story is scheduled for a future issue, and glad to see that there's interest. Dr. Boost, thanks for the offer. Sure, drop me a note. I'd love to see what you're making.

the proper answer for things like ABS and traction control systems is to just replumb the brakes and do without.. yeah, i do realize that half the fun of a C5 Vette is that it was when GM figured out how to make a crappy driver seem like a good driver with electronic aids- which is about 3/4 of the reason people like those cars- but this would help to knock the prices down to a range where i might be able to afford one some day.. and i'm sure we can all agree that is a good thing..

Rufledt wrote:

David S. Wallens wrote:

MadScientistMatt wrote: Wasn't there a GRM article recently on casting urethane parts at home? That's pretty practical for no-budget plastic items.

There was. Plus we have something cooking on 3D printers.

Do you happen to know which issue? i might have to find that.

It was the wreck rescue issue if I recall correctly.

GameboyRMH wrote: You might say the day was always here, for certain values of "discontinued parts" and "non-rich." Over time we can include more parts and lower the "non-rich" bar. 3D printing is lowering the "non-rich" bar drastically for making small plastic parts. I'd estimate fabbing a whole replacement dash for around the same cost a new one would go for from the factory is about 10 years away.

A whole dash? That's going to require a massive printer. And they're pretty darn complex underneath, never mind the multiple layers of structure, foam, vinyl/leather, etc. Still, I agree on the general principle if not this specific example. Now, a radio surround or center console, I can see.

We have a 3D printer here at work - it's a Solidoodle, based on some of JG's recommendations. It's definitely got a much bigger learning curve than a paper printer does, and it's a constant battle with larger parts to keep them nice and square on the bottom. Some of that could be user error - it's a work tool and not a hobby tool, which means futzing around time is minimal - but some seems to be the nature of the beast.

I think the metal printers are the interesting ones, but there's still going to be some effort involved. It could be that by the time someone has gone to all the effort to develop an exact 3D model PLUS any modifications needed to make it strong and durable in the new material, they'll want to be compensated for it. The idea of a big library of free download patterns is wonderful, but I suspect it's more of a pipe dream.

But if you could download the pattern for 60 bucks and make a part that is NLA and determines if you start parting out your car or not... Well you'll call up the JEGS/Amazon of the future and order that pattern/download. The BCM is NLA for even 2004/5/6 GTO's and is not a servicable part. It's already starting to result in totals of perfectly running cars. (there is another module or the same that controls the airbags that needs to be replaced after a hit that activates them...)

Mad_Ratel wrote: But if you could download the pattern for 60 bucks and make a part that is NLA and determines if you start parting out your car or not... Well you'll call up the JEGS/Amazon of the future and order that pattern/download. The BCM is NLA for even 2004/5/6 GTO's and is not a servicable part. It's already starting to result in totals of perfectly running cars. (there is another module or the same that controls the airbags that needs to be replaced after a hit that activates them...)

BCM means what? Brake Control Module?

In reply to Type Q:

Body control.

My Maker Farm Prusa prints 10X10X10 and has been 100% reliable since I got it. The prints are very accurate and precise. That print envelope and resolution would allow for some pretty great repro stuff. If it was larger, just print it as multiple pieces and join them.

I'm guessing that our relatively recent Solidoodle (I forget the model) was too early in the adoption curve. To me, it's still a rough and ready hobby tool or curiosity but not anything I'd be willing to use to make a real part.

If we could get good prints out of it, I can see it being a good way to generate the first step towards a custom casting.

Is size of the printer the main thing restricting plastic parts? Like, if someone were to want to print the rear wing from some 80's car (originally in black plastic) would they run into problems with it deforming during the printing process?

Using the things to make custom castings is a cool idea but im not sure its financially within the limits of how broke I am

Rufledt wrote: Is size of the printer the main thing restricting plastic parts? Like, if someone were to want to print the rear wing from some 80's car (originally in black plastic) would they run into problems with it deforming during the printing process?

There are a few factors. As far as part warpage, the most common factor is the print cooling too quickly. Then the next layer of 500 degree plastic lays on top and warps. Simply temporarily enclosing the print platform to stop drafts fixed it.

A little too much drama in here about things being "unobtainable". Thanks to the internet, you can have pretty much anything you want these days.

Most of the weird and wonderful stuff that GRMers work on were available by the thousands at one time or another.

I work on cars that there might only be tens of and I can still find, make or have made, everything I need.

Sooner or later, no matter what the part is, someone will make it because someone out there loves that car, no matter how horrible, pedestrian or downright strange the car is.

I make NLA gaskets for 1980 and 1981 Pontiac Trans-Ams with the turbocharged 301 V8. Dies cost me about $100 for each die, after that, the gasket maker stamps out however many I need.

So far I've sold about 400 sets of gaskets over the last seven years.

I looked into a CAD laser cutter but the cost is too high for something that will handle the material thickness I need.

Shawn

Regarding size, that bridge is about to be crossed. I was heavily involved (co-founder) with this company, and did quite a bit of the mechanical design. I'm no longer involved, since we moved across the state, but here you go. Huge build volume for really not that much money, compared to the ones from Stratasys, 3DSystems, etc.

http://www.cosineadditive.com/am1/

I've since made my own printer to use at work, since we do a lot of prototyping. It's about 18" cubed, so much smaller than that printer, but still bigger and stiffer than most things on the market right now. Still getting some of the bugs worked out, but it's pretty powerful stuff.

Metal printing, though, is still quite a ways off from "home-use" levels. I'd guess 20+ years rather than 5-10. The technology, as well as it's marketed, is still very much in the "science project" phase with failed builds being somewhat common. Even at the seven-figure price point, there's a high failure rate and they require a dedicated engineer to keep them running. The technology is awesome, sure, but it's not mature enough to be a consumer product yet. I'd love to be wrong about that, though.

Consider the 3D printer evolution in terms of things we already do.
Most folks have a printer or scanner at home that handles letter/legal size paper, these are low cost commodity devices.
How many of us have printer that can make very large size drawings or prints? These cost serious money.
Some of us have machine tools; lathes, drill presses, perhaps even milling machines.
What is the envelope for parts we can produce with these, compared to full sized NC machining centers or equipment for engines, chassis components, body parts?
No matter the fabrication method, precision and accuracy get expensive as size grows.