EDIT: Resurrected the thread, because it is pretty much getting to be time to buy. Start somewhere partway down page 3 if you want to skip ahead to Feb 2022.
EDIT AGAIN: Skip to page 5 if you want the latest as of late March
Yup, it's another what car thread. In the next few years, I am planning on a 3 week or so road trip out west. I did one in 2015, and have been wanting to do it again pretty much as soon as that trip ended. The 2015 trip was in a Fiat 500 Abarth, so even gravel roads were pretty much verboten, and I hoteled it every night. I had planned on taking the Mazda5 on the trip eventually, but had a thought - what about buying a used SUV a few months before the trip, doing a little light offroading to get used to it and to debug it, set it up so I can sleep in the back, and get to go out on some gravel roads and easier trails out west. Pretty much go see old mines and ghost towns, and some other scenery I'd otherwise miss. Since I'd not be sure I want to keep it afterwards, I'd also target trying to buy something that would have minimal depreciation, dollar-wise, over a 6 month-1 year period.
So, goals:
- Good enough stock, that I won't really need anything other than a decent set of AT tires for light offroading.
- Big enough that a 6' tall person can sleep in the back with the seats folded down, but as small as possible to fit on trails better.
- Reasonably comfortable on the highway. There's going to be a lot of driving, so I don't want it to beat me up.
- Parts/service availability - don't want to be out of commission several days waiting for parts if it breaks down.
- Ability to sell it for not too much of a loss.
My thinking is, I might be able to counter some of the depreciation and extra fuel cost by sleeping in it for ten or so days of the trip, thus saving me a chunk of hotel bills. I know prices are nuts now, so a specific target price is not great, but lets assume $10K upper limit, and that it'll be bought after the market settles down.
What I've thought of so far. I haven't checked to see if any of these have a large enough cargo area yet.
- Toyota 4Runner - seems like it is ideal, depending on year, it'd have the highest buy in, but probably my best chance of recouping money
- Lexus GX - same arguments as above, but it seems after a certain age, they get cheaper than 4Runners.
- Jeep Grand Cherokee - wide range of years to choose from, could buy an older fully depreciated one if I want to risk more breakdowns.
- Chevy Trailblazer/GMC Envoy - sort of a dark horse, but they sure look big enough to camp in, and seem to be pretty cheap. Would need to make sure the transmission and any other common trouble areas are dealt with.
Any thoughts on the above, or others I should start keeping my eye on?
What time of year are you sleeping out? I ask because, I wonder if there should be a consideration for keeping warm or cool. I own a Prius and I have seen people modify them for one person sleeping. I'm not really recommending a Prius but the neatest thing about sleeping in a Prius is the ability to continue to run the hvac.
While these hybrids are parked, you can continue to run the hvac. The hvac, is climate controlled, which means if you set it for 70 degrees it will run the hvac as needed to keep it to 70 degrees. Now, this hvac runs off battery until the battery is depleted. When depleted (or running down) the car the automatically turns on the engine to revive the battery. So, for a full night of sleeping you can leave the car "on" but in park and the car will decide by itself (while you sleep) when it needs to turn on the engine to allow the hvac to continue. Now, you may wonder about fumes while sleeping in a running car. The engine wont run constantly but even if it did, the Prius is such an ultra low emission car, there just isn't enough to kill you.
So, with all that said, a Prius might not be right but a Highlander Hybrid might! A Highlander is no Off-Roader but there is some height to the suspension. While it lacks in off-road, it will accel in on-road manners.
2018
1.5" lift info
Montero. Large enough to sleep in, can actually do some off-roading stock, not super terrible gas mileage. My Gen2 got ~20mpg when I took it out west.
In reply to John Welsh :
I did own a first gen Highlander, and I suspect they would be competent at anything I plan on doing, but maybe not at everything I actually end up doing 
.
Most likely, I'd be looking at the month of May or September, basically right before schools get out, or right after schools go in. Would prefer May, from a wildfire standpoint, so that means risk of snow. But, also a possible need for cooling. Most likely I'd do what I did when I camped out of a minivan. It had rain/wind deflectors on the front window, so I'd crack the window open, rig up some mesh material to keep bugs out, and run a quiet battery powered fan overnight to keep air circulating.
If you are not leaving roads (I count both gravel and dirt roads as roads), any non-lowered car should do. How many people are on the trip? A single person can sleep in most anything if you take out all the seats you are not using.
Do you have a specific budget, or does the resell take care of that?
EvanB said:
Montero. Large enough to sleep in, can actually do some off-roading stock, not super terrible gas mileage. My Gen2 got ~20mpg when I took it out west.
Monteros seem to meet the requirements, except for ease of getting parts. I mean, I'd do my best to make sure it's in top condition before leaving, but I'd hate to have a breakdown that forced me to sit around waiting for parts to get shipped from a distant warehouse, as opposed to being on the shelf nearby.
In reply to eastsideTim :
The Trailblazer/ Envoy gets my vote. there are also Buick versions of it. They are fabulously comfortable on the road. Off road wonderfully. ( I used to plow through 3 foot snow with mine whenever it would fall) Often one of the very few people out on the roads. that's because it's a true 4x4 with a real low range instead of the AWD most are. And I slept like a baby at the race track in the back of mine.
They really are a small version of the big suburban. For decent fuel mileage get the 6 cylinder. Not the V8. The early ones had 270 hp while the later ones got to 290 hp. And gobs of torque. Plus they rev like crazy. That Atlas is really a great engine. Ask the Nelsons.
The nice thing is they are about as depreciated as they will get. The newer versions had slight reliability improvements, plus more comfortable seats. But didn't have as many "toys". The rear shocks are air and the pump that keeps them up is a wonderful source of compressed air. The early non base models had an air hose to the interior of the rear and a rolled up hose you could used to go around and fill your tires, or pump up air mattresses. Etc. came with adapters too. ( Lower right rear compartment) if you're junkyard shopping.
You could also change your ride height which also softened the ride in the down position. But off road you'd raise it up and keep from dragging in the pot holes etc.
Chevy dealers all over the country even smaller sized towns and well its a Chevy so parts aren't a problem.
Okay, with hybrid off the list then I would recommend to add Nissan Pathfinder (up to 2012 model), maybe the slightly smaller Xterra.
I can confirm that my Gen3 Montero (01-06) is capable off-road and smooth on-road but generally poor at mpg returning 15-18 mpg.
eastsideTim said:
EvanB said:
Montero. Large enough to sleep in, can actually do some off-roading stock, not super terrible gas mileage. My Gen2 got ~20mpg when I took it out west.
Monteros seem to meet the requirements, except for ease of getting parts. I mean, I'd do my best to make sure it's in top condition before leaving, but I'd hate to have a breakdown that forced me to sit around waiting for parts to get shipped from a distant warehouse, as opposed to being on the shelf nearby.
Rock Auto is pretty good availability, but yeah, not like a Chevy.
In reply to matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) :
I'd probably go up to 10k or so price wise. The depreciation factor is more a matter of total dollars, though. So if I bought and prepped something that cost 10k, and sold for a 20% loss at 8000, it'd be worse than if I bought and prepped something at 5k, and sold it for a 30% loss at 3500, all other things being equal.
For actual camping, it'd probably be just me. I'd need to haul a passenger at least part of the time, as my wife would probably fly out for the trip for at least a week, but for that part, we'd probably stick to hotels.
I guess not having any experience with the trails to ghost towns out in Colorado and surrounding states, I'd rather be a bit over prepared, versus under prepared.
John Welsh said:
Okay, with hybrid off the list then I would recommend to add Nissan Pathfinder (up to 2012 model), maybe the slightly smaller Xterra.
This is currently top of my list for a similar trip.
For an outlier that might be able to be purchased cheaper...the previous body Pathfinder was also rebadged as the Infiniti QX4. No real mechanical difference other than better leather and deeper carpet. 1997 to 2003
EvanB said:
Montero. Large enough to sleep in, can actually do some off-roading stock, not super terrible gas mileage. My Gen2 got ~20mpg when I took it out west.
....really? 20mpg-ish?
Somehow I had the impression that its fuel economy was far worse than that.
I did appreciate how well it drove, compared to most vehicles of its size and type. It wasn't a penalty box. Not very fast, but is that really important?
In reply to eastsideTim :
I totally get being over prepared; you are going to an unfamiliar place and you don't want to spend a vacation being worried. You also want to be able to recover if you screw up, at least I look at things that way.
Just saying that unless you are planning on areas rough enough to have a wheel in the air, something FWD with sufficient ground clearance will get you an aweful lot of places as well as having cheaper buy in and often better mpg.
I am not trying to change your mind on the vehicle you want, I am just trying to pull off some of the worry about having a vehicle "capable enough."
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Fueleconomy.gov rates at 1997 Montero (Gen2) at more like 15-18 mpg. Is that 20-ish? Maybe.
A Highlander Hybrid is 26 mpg
I'm setting my suburban up for a similar mission when I don't want to bring the whole 28 foot camp trailer. It easily fits a queen bed and supplies in the back, gives me 18-19 MPG highway and parts are available everywhere.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
My 1st gen montero with the 3.0 v6 is quite a bit lighter than the gen 2 and I can only manage about 15 mpg. With that said, one of the valve seals is bad so it burns some oil which can't help efficiency. It also requires fairly flat ground to maintain 80-85 mph on the highway with 31" tires.
yupididit said:
Isn't there a clean LS swapped Frontier in the classifieds for $10,000?
If I was planning the trip for just a few months from now, that'd be really tempting. Same with your Excursion, even though it is way more massive than I'd need.
eastsideTim said:
yupididit said:
Isn't there a clean LS swapped Frontier in the classifieds for $10,000?
If I was planning the trip for just a few months from now, that'd be really tempting. Same with your Excursion, even though it is way more massive than I'd need.
I think that thing is neat, but in my case (and yours sounds similar), reliability is a higher concern for me than power by a pretty larger margin. Not that an LS is unreliable, but with any swap there are always little issues, and often parts availability and repair knowledge is much more limited.
I'd do a Suburban as well. Actually, I did do the Suburban. While it won't do any rock crawling, it is perfectly happy on dirt, gravel, and mud. On AT tires it get 17-19 mpg at 75 mph. This one was $2750.
For a more capable off-road rig, look for a Z71 Tahoe. That will get you a shorter vehicle, a little heavier off-road suspension and shocks, as well as some underbody protection in the form of skid plates that the regular 4x4s don't come with. Also, look for the Positraction RPO code. Looks like it should be G80 or G81. $10k should get you a nice one.
Vote here for the 4runner. Find a 4th gen with the V8, easy to find parts and you can sell it when you are done and probably make money vs loose
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
EvanB said:
Montero. Large enough to sleep in, can actually do some off-roading stock, not super terrible gas mileage. My Gen2 got ~20mpg when I took it out west.
....really? 20mpg-ish?
Somehow I had the impression that its fuel economy was far worse than that.
I did appreciate how well it drove, compared to most vehicles of its size and type. It wasn't a penalty box. Not very fast, but is that really important?
Around town it was significantly worse than that. Cruising around 70 on the highway it was actually pretty good.
I'm in the Tahoe/Suburban camp myself. Just a space tradeoff, the Tahoe is much shorter so is better off road, but the Burb has dramatically more room inside.
I'm 6'4" and spend at least 20 nights a year sleeping in the back of my GMT400 Tahoe. The GMT400 seems to have the same space as a GMT800 but exterior dimensions are smaller.
A GMT400 Tahoe is about the same size as the newer Trailblazer and friends.
I get about 20 mpg in the Tahoe on the highway. 4wd is probably a bit worse. Before I lowered it, it was more like 17-18. My parents' GMT800 5.3 Tahoe gets around 16 highway.
With either the GMT400 or GMT800, you could get the G80 locking diff, and/or Z71 off road package. with that diff, they are very capable off road. Even my 2WD with the G80 has been through some silly stuff.
Sleeping platform, only halfway across so I can either have the third seat installed or put a big plastic tote in the hole:
GMT400 vs Trailblazer:
three dinosaurs hanging out together:
Edit: with all the parts and gear, it looks like this with me lying down in it. Normally the spare wheels are elsewhere. Spent a few nights with the ex GF back here with all this stuff and it was a little tight. Used an inflatable camping pad that trip. For non-moto trips, we had a twin size air mattress with all our stuff to the side like this and it was much more manageable.
John Welsh said:
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Fueleconomy.gov rates at 1997 Montero (Gen2) at more like 15-18 mpg. Is that 20-ish? Maybe.
A Highlander Hybrid is 26 mpg
They also rated my Volvos at faaaaaaar less than I get in real world driving. My S40 was rated at 19/27. I could see 42 highway, and had seen 34mpg towing.
The other one is rated at 16/23, I have seen far over that on a regular basis. Including towing at 80mph over mountains, in 5th gear to keep boost down to a sensible level.
