Appleseed said:We had an ICE car that would do 63 mpg with so-so aero, archaic 1st gen EFI, and zero safety features . I'd like to think in 30+ years , we can do better than the Geo Metro.
Most new cars have a lot about a metros weight in widgets on them though too.
I don't know if people can live with a 55 hp 1900ish pound car anymore
In reply to RyanGreener (Forum Supporter) :
Right now they are kind of both.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to RyanGreener (Forum Supporter) :
Right now they are kind of both.
Yeah, but it'll get worse in either or both directions.
Weight really isn't critical to fuel economy outside of stop/go driving. Heavy weight can be offset with hybridization at low speeds to eliminate the least efficient usage of an ICE. A hybrid Camry, a hybrid Corolla, and hybrid Prius all get nearly identical fuel economy from different sizes of vehicles. As electrification increases, size and weight have a smaller and smaller effect on fuel efficiency.
Highway fuel economy is much more about aerodynamics, rolling resistance, and keeping an ICE (if equipped) in it's most efficient rpm range.
I don't think weight reduction is likely with a regulation like this. The benefits in fuel efficiency aren't worth the cost, and other drawbacks. It's easier to just add electrification to varying degrees.
STM317 said:
I don't think weight reduction is likely with a regulation like this. The benefits in fuel efficiency aren't worth the cost, and other drawbacks. It's easier to just add electrification to varying degrees.
To expand on this point, it's important to understand that there are going to be many different degrees of hybridization. From the two main you know of now- typical hybrid and plug in- the extremes are added- something as small as a small motor in the FEAD to add and take out a few HP here and there to an EV that has a small engine on it as a range extender. The range of abilities is going to stretch way out- especially as batteries get easier to deal with.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:Appleseed said:We had an ICE car that would do 63 mpg with so-so aero, archaic 1st gen EFI, and zero safety features . I'd like to think in 30+ years , we can do better than the Geo Metro.
Most new cars have a lot about a metros weight in widgets on them though too.
I don't know if people can live with a 55 hp 1900ish pound car anymore
I wouldn't just from a safety standpoint, not even getting into all the other amenities in newer vehicles.
Even a new Corolla has 1200 lbs on your theoretical car.
I want an 86 with one of these in front of the 8 speed. Make it plug-in with ~20 miles of full electric range, 50-100hp of electric boost in some sort of sport mode.
We'll see all kinds of solutions to the issue no doubt. Technology moves forward constantly and consumer wishes move with it. My grandfather would never even consider buying a car with a six cylinder engine, let alone a four. Today we have 3300 pound vehicles with 1300cc three cylinders that get better than 30mpg. While a 55mpg target may seem impossible there's a lot of engineers working worldwide on solving it. I have faith.
GameboyRMH said:Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:As long as consumers want to drive big, fast, heavy and feature-laden vehicles, I'm not sure how manufacturers can really make something like this happen and stay in business.
Nobody told that to Rivian, Tesla (Model X / Cybertruck), Jaguar (E-pace), Ford (Fat 'Stang) or GM (new Hummer).
Those are EVs, which I am not considering as part of this discussion. Otherwise we we just have a bunch of MPGe vehicles along with a handful of low MPG ICE vehicles. And maybe that is what we want anyway, so the whole discussion around corporate fuel economy becomes moot. Forcing a standard upon manufactures when the buying public may not agree gets dicey. Maybe we'll end up with more hybrids. Who knows... I find it amusing how predictions about what regulations will achieve rarely come true - or least not in the way originally intended.
There will always be situations where an ICE vehicle is more appropriate than an EV. As tech improves, the scale will tilt more towards EVs, but the outliers won't go away.
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