Perusing Craigslist as much I as do, I find myself stumbling across numerous challenge-priced manual transmission 4 cylinder turbo A4 quattros and it got me wondering if these are at the bottom of their depreciation curve. That seems an awful lot of car for less than $2100. What experiences/thoughts does the hive have regarding this car? I've not owned one but wonder what the possibilities are for tuning one to big hp numbers on a grassroots budget.
Do you like engine sludge? The oil return line routes too close to the turbo compressor housing causing the oil to shear and sludge
I see. Strike one...
I have never seen a sludgy A4. Then again my customers get synthetic changed every 5-6k. (Long OCIs are only good if you plan on discarding the car when the lease is up) The only oil related problem I see is when the "oil funnel" (dipstick tube) crumbles and pieces of plastic clog the oil pickup.
I LOVE this chassis. They simply don't rust, have good chassis dynamics, and are very easy to work on. The Motronic ECU is pretty well hacked, too. The only downside is the rear spring perch/shock tower/upper control arm mount rusts away. It's around $600/side new and used ones don't exist because they all rot away.
There is also a meta downside. It is very hard to find a NICE B5 Audi. They are usually horribly ragged now that they are on their third or fourth owner. For a good one, you'll pay what it's worth, not $2000.
Circa 2003-2005 I'd see no fewer than 4 sludge 1.8Ts a week. Mostly A4s and passats due to the return line routing. The golf/jetta/tt was mounted differently and the line didn't pass by the compressor housing.
I'd do cam adjuster seals on any that you were to get asap as well and keep 3-4 coolant temp sensors handy. Be sure to inspect the suspension arm bushings as well.
Had a B5 audi....it's the car I've most hated to this day. And I've own an Alfa. And yeah, sludge....google "1.8t sludge"
A few fun sampler:
Etc....
They do have a nice suspension....that keeps on breaking
And they don't rust...except all the fasteners that rust in place
I always loved these cars on paper, they are great to drive and have a wonderful interior and seating position, but they just seemed a little bit too complicated to have as a reliable daily for me so I never made the plunge.
The thing most people complain about is the front suspension rebuild the car needs every 100k or so, since you have to do EVERY control arm or the one sloppy one you leave will take out all the new ones. I also know there was a class action lawsuit about the timing belts breaking well before the service interval, but that's probably not an issue anymore with updated parts.
Knurled wrote: There is also a meta downside. It is very hard to find a NICE B5 Audi. They are usually horribly ragged now that they are on their third or fourth owner. For a good one, you'll pay what it's worth, not $2000.
Truth. As prices were driven down due to age, the A4 became really popular with stance bruh types and VW fanbois. Back when I was seriously considering one in the late 00's there were at least plenty of nice ones to choose from. Now it's difficult to find one that hasn't been beaten HARD, and these are very particular about service if nothing else...
I had a b5 a4 audi with the 1.8t and it never have me any issues. I had to replace 2 of the control arms in the front for ball joints starting to go bad but it wasnt to bad to do, that was really the only major repairs I had to do besides maintenance. A Mail order tune will really wake these engines up.
I would say if its a good deal and the car checks out then go for it.
If you want to tune to big numbers, start with the S4 rather than the A4.
In reply to codrus:
The 2.7 bi turbo doesn't hold oil long enough to allow it to sludge. It's like having a B13 rotary motor only with more expensive premix that goes into the crankcase opposed to the gas tank.
In reply to captdownshift: Or it's a perfectly happy motor that gave exactly zero problems in two years of DD use and tuned by APR to be pretty lively. But as always YMMV
I've been contemplating the 2.8 variety a4 for awhile now, but currently have too many cars to drive. Otherwise it would be a quattro 2.8 manual car and a turbo.
KyAllroad wrote: In reply to captdownshift: Or it's a perfectly happy motor that gave exactly zero problems in two years of DD use and tuned by APR to be pretty lively. But as always YMMV
I put 70K miles on one, didn't burn any oil when I sold it. I never ran higher than stock boost, though.
If you go with a B6 and get the 3.0L 6spd it's a smooth buttery torque monster that soaks up miles and other than control arms is as reliable as an anvil. The 3.0L 6 spd combo is thirsty though. If you can up the budget to the $6-7 range that's the route to go.
I think it was Knurled that was full of horror stories involving the 3.0 V6. I know my local indie VAG mechanic hates working on them, something about the timing belt being four times the nightmare of anything else they've ever produced.
captdownshift wrote: If you go with a B6 and get the 3.0L 6spd it's a smooth buttery torque monster that soaks up miles and other than control arms is as reliable as an anvil. The 3.0L 6 spd combo is thirsty though. If you can up the budget to the $6-7 range that's the route to go.
In the B6 the 4.2 is so much more fun. Questions regarding the timing chain tensioners, yes, but the motor is worth it. Milage sucks though. :)
(I had a B5 S4, then B6 S4, now C7 S6. What can I say, I like blue Audis!)
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