Throttle + Braking while cornering, good technique, or impractical?

I was watching some of those guys using simulators, and noticed they use their left foot on the brake, and right foot for the throttle, not using the clutch at all. I asked them about it and they told me the clutch does not need to be used in some of these cars with sequential transmissions, the clutch is only used when taking off, which I guess I can understand.

What was stumping me, was when looking at the telemetry provided by the simulation, these guys are never releasing the throttle fully when cornering, they always keep at least 5%-30% throttle applied while braking and cornering. They never release the throttle, so they are basically driving with the throttle and brake at the same time. I tried to argue that I don't think this technique would work well in the real word and got bombarded by the simulation drivers that its a valid technique. I have personally never heard of using this technique in a road racing car, and I really don't see how it would work without damaging the car eventually.

What do you guys think?

Left foot braking is easier to execute in a sim environment. It is a legitimate technique employed by many drivers, but it's nowhere near as common in real life.

I'm not smooth enough with it to use it successfully, but I keep practicing.

I know some people that induce oversteer/reduce understeer by left foot braking in front drive cars. I don't do this myself, being a diehard right-foot braker.

In reply to GT_Motion:

It sounds like "heel and toe". The practice has been around a long time, but I have only read about it. Some would add material to the pedals so they could use gas and brake at the same time with the right foot.

jstein77 wrote: I know some people that induce oversteer/reduce understeer by left foot braking in front drive cars. I don't do this myself, being a diehard right-foot braker.

Also, a lot of drivers of turbo cars use it to keep the turbo spooled for the corner exit.

hammer56 wrote: In reply to GT_Motion: It sounds like "heel and toe". The practice has been around a long time, but I have only read about it. Some would add material to the pedals so they could use gas and brake at the same time with the right foot.

It's not heel n toe, heel n toe is taught as using your right foot to brake and blip the throttle while downshifting to make sure the engine and drive train are in sync on downshifts. What they are doing is using the throttle+brake at the same time, while using a lot or rear brake bias so they can enter and exit turns at faster speeds without losing control of the car. It sounds good, but have any of you actually used the throttle while braking hard into a corner? Could you imagine what that will do to your car lap after lap?

I've used left foot braking to rotate a FWD car while maintaining lots of throttle. But that's a different thing than your describing.

A light throttle on corner entry would simply prevent the engine from providing any significant engine braking, but not enough thrust that you're fighting against the brakes. WOT and hard braking, that could be a problem.

This practice is pretty common on loose surfaces like in a stage rally. I've always heard you'll over-heat the brakes on a grippy surface doing it.

In real life on a racetrack you do a lot of steering with your feet - left foot braking is really just using both brake and throttle input at the same time to maintain stability and adjust the attitude of the car thru a corner. In my E30 with a short wheelbase - I use it mostly in fast sweepers to smooth out the transitions between throttle and brake at the limit. In corners like the outer loop at Watkins Glen and T4 at Summit where you are going very fast and any abruptness will upset the car, you can just keep the throttle wide-open and use small brake inputs to keep weight on the right ends of the car. My 911 absolutely requires it to keep understeer in check almost everywhere and I even do it on the street, just out of habit.

Keith wrote: I've used left foot braking to rotate a FWD car while maintaining lots of throttle. But that's a different thing than your describing. A light throttle on corner entry would simply prevent the engine from providing any significant engine braking, but not enough thrust that you're fighting against the brakes. WOT and hard braking, that could be a problem.

I am going to try and find a youtube of someone using it, RWD is mainly what I am talking about.

Around 45 seconds... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyVHj3sHVHQ

In reply to GT_Motion:

Here is a video on youtube I found with telemetry. Look at the bottom where you can see the throttle+braking inputs through the corners. I could never imagine doing this in my 240sx, thats why I am having a hard time grasping it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF6dgy82-d0&feature=channel_page

walterj wrote: Around 45 seconds... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyVHj3sHVHQ

Oh, I completely agree it is used in rally, I have even seen instruction from rally drivers on using left foot braking in rally. To me that is a completely different ball park though because you are in an AWD that is on a loose surface.

GT_Motion wrote:

walterj wrote: Around 45 seconds... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyVHj3sHVHQ

Oh, I completely agree it is used in rally, I have even seen instruction from rally drivers on using left foot braking in rally. To me that is a completely different ball park though because you are in an AWD that is on a loose surface.

The same principals apply on a road course - just much less dramatic input. I would be terrified to "STAB" the brake while in a 4 wheel drift - but I do squeeze a little while holding the throttle open to load the front up when it starts to push. You aren't using it to slow down as much as adjust attitude and move the weight to the right end of the car to maintain traction. It is much finer control than trying to lift or accelerate harder - you can be very precise and it sounds hard but if you practice driving on the street with 2 feet it will feel natural right away. Drive up to a stop light and try to keep the car from pitching by bringing up the brakes as you come out of the gas... overlap the inputs.

I use it when I need to keep my right foot on the gas in some capacity---not necessarily full throttle. There's all sorts of shades of grey at the limit--little bits of throttle---little bits of brake--that keep the car on the hairy edge. Left foot braking makes that more doable.

In cirlce track we do it all the time. it does a few things. 1) keeps the throttle from sticking closed due to high vacuum holding the slides down tight then snapping open 2) It keeps the drive train under load so things like rod ends that hold the rear in place are kept under load so theres no snap cluncking of clearances when you apply more throttle thus chasis see it as smooth transision of power not a violent crack of the whip.

44

Oh, and on loose surfaces and with unknown territory ahead (aka...rally) the left foot guarding the brake pedal is great for staying out of ditches/trees.

I have done it in both front and rear wheel drive cars.. makes for a LOT of control in snow

mad_machine wrote: I have done it in both front and rear wheel drive cars.. makes for a LOT of control in snow

+1

I use it on the street all the time, especially if I'm driving a slushbox. There isn't a defining point between brake and throttle. You ease off the brake while applying throttle. Just releasing the brake will definately upset the balance. To do this correctly you need to be proficient at heel and toe downshifting so that once you get into the gear you will hold through the corner you can move your left foot from the clutch to the brake and continue to trailbrake though the apex.

Here's an interesting article that includes information about Schumacher's left-foot braking technique:

http://www.dellanave.com/files/f1racing.pdf

YaNi wrote: I use it on the street all the time, especially if I'm driving a slushbox.

That's cheating!

I have to right now, I am wearing a cast on my right foot and I am relegated to "Throttle ON/Throttle OFF" engagement with braking on the sweepers (including the one on my straight 15 foot driveway).

Moons ago I was a local circle track legend (in my own mind) and I would run two footed. It was easier to go fast and keep a tempo when I was trying to stay in front of the pack... Mind you the pack was about to lap me.

I only left foot brake, because of all the years in the kart. Even driving around town, I use my left foot out of habit.

Tommy Suddard wrote: I only left foot brake, because of all the years in the kart. Even driving around town, I use my left foot out of habit.

Hrmmm... didn't think of that.

I WILL say one thing .... you habitual left foot brakers are TERRIFYING to ride around with, no matter how smooth you are. My brain always watches whoever is driving, and REFUSES to comprehend what is going on. As soon as it sees that left leg shift and the car starts to slow, it goes into full panic mode: YOU'RE GONNA DIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For me, it depends on the car and the circumstances. In the Miata, I almost never left foot brake. The only time I do is when I know I'm going to be staying in the same gear and I want to go gas-brake-gas faster than one foot will allow me to. Other than that, it's such a well balanced car that I don't feel I need it.

On the other hand, when autocrossing a FWD car (or a front heavy AWD car), I think it's the best way to get the rear to rotate. And on a loose surface - gravel, snow, etc. - my brain goes back to Team O'Neil and the habits kick in automatically. It's fun to drive a FWD car sideways.