Time for a new car

So with a kid on the way, I need to get a car with a back seat since neither my 99 Ranger or 93 Civic have one. It won't be the main kiddy hauler but it will certainly be used some.

The cars I am considering are below.

1) EP3 Civic Si. Probably my top choice. I have always liked these and they seem to be really cheap right now. But finding one in a condition I would want seem tricky and they don't get the best gas mileage.

2) Second generation Saab 9-3. I have wanted a Saab. Gas mileage isn't the best but they are cheap and I should be able to find one in decent condition. How hard is it to get parts and are there any reliablity problems to worry about?

3) 1st gen TSX. I am a Honda fan. Always thought these were neat cars. Seem to cost a bit more then the EP3 and have worst gas milage.

4) 1st gen Fit. I know water leakage issues are a problem on these.

5) 1st gen Scion xB. Good gas mileage. Maybe a little boring to drive. A bit funky.

6) 1st gen Mazda3. A little meh about this one but could be a decent option.

7) Scion xA. The xB's dorky cousin. They seem to be cheaper then an xB and a bit better gas mileage.

8) Fiat 500. Very top of my price range and I think I would just be wishing I had of bought an Abarth the whole time. Not 100% sure about reliability or problem areas.

9) 1st gen Matrix XRS or Vibe GT. A little meh about this but ok gas mileage and plenty of room. Not sure about finding one though. A bit SUVish.

I am trying to say under $4500, manual, get decent gas mileage (certainly better then my Ranger), new enough to have the LATCH system and not terrible to drive. Any of them will probably get lowered a bit, tint and wheels. 

Cars I ruled out, anything from Germany, Britain, Chevy or Dodge (cause of reliability or I just don't like them)

Ford Focus (I'd rather have the 3 if I was looking at those except the SVT that seems like it would hard to find and gets pretty bad gas mileage for a car of that size).

Subaru (the only one I'd be interested in is the WRX and those have all been modified to death and vaped in)

Other Civics (the same generation as the EP3 got the kind E36 M3 D17 and the others seem a bit boring other then the SI which is out of my price range.)

Mazda6 (not the best gas mileage and if I was going Mazda I'd rather have a 3).

What am I forgetting? Any thoughts, comments or advice would be great.

Anything from Kia excite you?

The G35 sedan could be had in a manual. I didn't love the build quality of my coupe, but it did get out of its own way pretty well.

In your list, I'd throw out the 500, and start shopping for a TSX.

As much as I hate to say this, embrace the appliance. I recently got a 2012 Mazda 6 for my daily and it is by far the best daily I've ever had. Don't know where you're at but in my area ones with well under a hundred thousand miles are going for 5 grand

I'd go with the Matrix. Not terrible to drive and a really useful form factor. The Scion would work too but it's a death trap in an accident.

If you like Hondas, why not look at Accords?  I had a 94 Accord EX with a manual and it was a lot of fun.  After I sold it on to my friend, he drove it to ~450k before someone blew a light and killed it.  TSX is my choice from your list.  

First gen Mazda 3s are a lot of fun to drive, but rare to find in nice shape.  Saabs get really good mileage in my experience, or at least the 9-3 I drove on a road trip did...it knocked down 30+mpg doing some supercruising.

Rear-facing car seats take a lot of room.  Most small cars won't fit one behind the driver unless you're 5'8" or shorter.  Kids grow up quick and have a lot accessories in tow, so probably want to get a full size car.

Another alternative might be to get a 4-door truck?

Tyler H said:

If you like Hondas, why not look at Accords?  I had a 94 Accord EX with a manual and it was a lot of fun.  After I sold it on to my friend, he drove it to ~450k before someone blew a light and killed it.  TSX is my choice from your list.  

First gen Mazda 3s are a lot of fun to drive, but rare to find in nice shape.  Saabs get really good mileage in my experience, or at least the 9-3 I drove on a road trip did...it knocked down 30+mpg doing some supercruising.

Rear-facing car seats take a lot of room.  Most small cars won't fit one behind the driver unless you're 5'8" or shorter.  Kids grow up quick and have a lot accessories in tow, so probably want to get a full size car.

Another alternative might be to get a 4-door truck?

I like the TSX better then Accord and from what I have seen they are about the same price.

Fair point on the smaller cars. Probably going to drop the 500. Why couldn't I put the rear facing seat behind the passenger seat?

I don't want to drive a truck any more. They are useful but I hate driving them. I am keeping the Ranger around as a cheap beater truck.

Mike said:

The G35 sedan could be had in a manual. I didn't love the build quality of my coupe, but it did get out of its own way pretty well.

In your list, I'd throw out the 500, and start shopping for a TSX.

The G35 has a few too many problems and pretty poor gas mileage honestly.

just saying

93EXCivic said:

2) Second generation Saab 9-3. I have wanted a Saab. Gas mileage isn't the best but they are cheap and I should be able to find one in decent condition. How hard is it to get parts and are there any reliablity problems to worry about?

8) Fiat 500. Very top of my price range and I think I would just be wishing I had of bought an Abarth the whole time. Not 100% sure about reliability or problem areas.

I'll comment on the two that I know intimately.

The 9-3: My wife's daily driver is an '08 9-3 SportCombi 2.0T/6spd. A friend's father bought it new and we bought it from them a couple of years ago. It now has over 90k on it. Neither parts nor reliability have been an issue. At around 80k, the stupid dual mass flywheel started to fail in a weird way, so the car got a new clutch kit, flywheel, trans fluid, and so on. One issue to keep an eye out for is the intake valves failing to seal properly at cold start. Ours has started doing it lately. My understanding is that it will effect all of them from '07-11 or so, and the fix is to pull the head and install the revised intake valves (or swap to a head from an '03-06). The issue first shows itself as a cold-start misfire in cold weather, and eventually the car won't make enough compression to start at all when cold. Ours hasn't gotten this bad, but I do have another head ready to go on when it does. Despite the issues, my wife is still enamored with the car and refuses to consider anything else. They're a hell of a bargain right now.

The 500: I bought a 500 new in 2012. It was a manual base model (Pop) with zero options in the awesome Espresso color. That car never broke. Never rattled. Never had so much as a flat tire. We sold it to a friend earlier this year with under 100k on it and still going strong. It was amusing enough to drive and averaged 39ish MPG when I had a commute. All I did to it was replace a some bulbs as they burned out, installed a set of Sparco wheels, had the windows tinted, and threw in a set of Weathertech mats. It was trouble free and excellent to drive and own in the time we had it. That said... I'm not sure it would baby very well. Modern carseats are huge and the 500 is far from it. It would probably be fine behind the passenger seat if you didn't have a passenger. YMMV. 

93EXCivic said:

Tyler H said:

If you like Hondas, why not look at Accords?  I had a 94 Accord EX with a manual and it was a lot of fun.  After I sold it on to my friend, he drove it to ~450k before someone blew a light and killed it.  TSX is my choice from your list.  

First gen Mazda 3s are a lot of fun to drive, but rare to find in nice shape.  Saabs get really good mileage in my experience, or at least the 9-3 I drove on a road trip did...it knocked down 30+mpg doing some supercruising.

Rear-facing car seats take a lot of room.  Most small cars won't fit one behind the driver unless you're 5'8" or shorter.  Kids grow up quick and have a lot accessories in tow, so probably want to get a full size car.

Another alternative might be to get a 4-door truck?

I like the TSX better then Accord and from what I have seen they are about the same price.

Fair point on the smaller cars. Probably going to drop the 500. Why couldn't I put the rear facing seat behind the passenger seat?

I don't want to drive a truck any more. They are useful but I hate driving them. I am keeping the Ranger around as a cheap beater truck.

You can put baby behind the passenger seat, but the driver seat is safer and you don't have to walk around the car every time you have to load/unload baby, stop to retrieve a dropped toy/paci, deal with the inevitable puke and blowouts, make sure he/she is still breathing, etc.   It will save you literally miles of walking, just around the car and back. 

Welcome to parenthood!  :)  I'm on #3, 12, 10, and 2yrs old. 

If you think more are in your future, skip straight to the van.  Vans rule.

Had a Matrix XRS for a week; peppy little thing. The shifter location took getting used to, but it was decent and had plenty of space. Wife ended up buying a Vibe, but hated it. MPG was great and plenty of space, but it lacked any sort of power.

Test drove  1st gen Fit..sportingly. Not a bad car, but small. Perhaps I'm used just to my wagon, but I felt too big for it and I'm not a big guy.

Out of your list, I personally would go with the TSX. Has the bulletproof K24 and is spacious like the Accord, but sportier engine and suspension. The only downside is that it will require premium.

I was in the same predicament when my daughter was on the way; I sold my GTO and settled with a manual '08 Accord. 

If I had to do it all over again, I would've bought a  newer Mazda 6 or a newer Mazda 3 hatch (years without the rust issues).

+1 Saabs are an incredible bargain right now.

Plus it's a turbo ecotec. Parts are everywhere.

I've had two on your list.  The EP3 is a fun car and tons of rear seat room.  There were jokes about it being a small minivan when it came out.  Good space in the back for kids considering it's a two door hatchback. The 500 was fun to drive (mine was the turbo, not the Abarth), but the back seat is comically small.  I'm only 5'10" and the back of the drivers seat was about 1/2" from the front of the rear lower seat cushion. 

I'll second a Mazda5 with a manual as another option.  I know it's not your primary kid hauler, but extra room with kids is always nice.  I test drove one and it was surprisingly fun to drive while also being very utilitarian.

-Rob

Tyler H said:

93EXCivic said:

I like the TSX better then Accord and from what I have seen they are about the same price.

Fair point on the smaller cars. Probably going to drop the 500. Why couldn't I put the rear facing seat behind the passenger seat?

I don't want to drive a truck any more. They are useful but I hate driving them. I am keeping the Ranger around as a cheap beater truck.

You can put baby behind the passenger seat, but the driver seat is safer and you don't have to walk around the car every time you have to load/unload baby, stop to retrieve a dropped toy/paci, deal with the inevitable puke and blowouts, make sure he/she is still breathing, etc.   It will save you literally miles of walking, just around the car and back. 

Welcome to parenthood!  :)  I'm on #3, 12, 10, and 2yrs old. 

If you think more are in your future, skip straight to the van.  Vans rule.

Only one more maybe. Probably adaption in a few years.

Good point on the walking didn't think about that. Why is the driver's side safer?

One other I thought of Volvo V70. Yay or nay?

Another vote for the Mazda 5. We've been using one for my wife's DD for a year. I'm going to eventually replace the 600TW all seasons, and then try it at an autocross.

Not sure about pricing, but what about the Acura ILX?  Basically a tarted up  civic si.

Another vote for the TLX. The civic and Mazda 3 are also great options 
 

In reply to 93EXCivic :

I would argue the passenger side is better, so that you'll be loading/unloading curbside instead of street side. And easier to look over your shoulder/in the mirror at the passenger rear seat, rather than trying to see directly behind your seat. I don't think either side is recommended over another, center is generally recommended if possible but it's really personal preference. 

Another vote for curb side.

Whatever you get, take the car seat with you and put it in the car before you buy it. They take up a surprising bit of room.

I’d look for a Fit. Insane room, entertaining, economical and you are already a Honda man... don’t rule out the 2nd gen, a better and safer car in many ways and can be had w/in your budget.

I don't know how you would get a car seat in a Fiat 500. Shop TSX or Accord. Fly n drive?

Another vote for middle or passenger side. Easier to look in the rear view or quick glance over the shoulder. Also easier to reach for items that fell, wipe spit, sooth because they can see you, etc etc.

Also another vote for taking the car seat with you. Those baby car seats are berkeleying massive and will likely be in the middle seat until the switch to forward facing.

If you're concerned about MPG my Wife's TSX went from 24-25 mpg local driving to 26-27 with an upgraded header .