Time to race... but what flavor?

I have posted a similar question before but it was too specific. I'll be more general.

I have always been a GRM kinda guy. I only found this forum a couple years ago and I have found it to be right up my alley, except for the fact that I have never raced. Never. Ever. Unless you count the occasional humiliation of the car next to me at a stoplight, wailing on a go-kart, or finding the perfect apex on a freeway on-ramp.

I want to race, which means taking the proper classes, having a properly prepped car, etc. I don't necessarily want to make it a profession, just an occasional hobby. I can build my own car, but at this point sponsorship isn't a big issue since I can build better than I can drive.

Here are the main factors you should know:

1) Hill-climbing excites me, but (as has been discussed before) its not a beginner sport.
2) Going in circles doesn't excite me, turning both ways does excite me. I love watching vintage races at places like Laguna or Watkins.
3) The car I'm building is a 67 LeMans that will be streetable at least for now.
4) Competition for big money doesn't excite me. Learning how to drive well and competing against myself does excite me. Doing that while going wheel-to-wheel (as opposed to something like autocross) is what I like.

Basically, I want to learn and have fun without the big competition. I may move toward a more competitive setting, but I gotta learn first.

Ideas?

So are you looking for wheel to wheel or time trial type stuff?

Should the question be "what classes of time based racing can I build a 1967 Lemans for that it might be competitive in?"

Like which time trial or hill climb classes could you build it for? Sounds fun. You'll learn tons just by doing autocross or track days for fun

Sounds like you want to go vintage racing?

curtis73 wrote: 2) Going in circles doesn't excite me, turning both ways *does* excite me. Ideas?

Don't knock it till you've tried it. It is by far the cheapest and easiest way to get into real wheel to wheel racing, and it's way more fun than you think it is.

If it's the wheel to wheel aspect you are interested in vs driving a car at its limits in a safe environment sure

In reply to curtis73:

If you want to go both ways and Lemons or Chump car are out, IMHO it is hard to beat vintage racing for the cost especially with a Spridget or Spitfire.

Edit: I would start with HPDEs and autocrossing though.

Find a beater and rallycross it? Hard to get more fun for cheap.

Open Road Racing may not be wheel to wheel, but it's a motorsport that requires performance driving and discipline. It also allows one to compete using anything from a family sedan to a purpose-built racecar. It's worth a look.

Zomby Woof wrote:

curtis73 wrote: 2) Going in circles doesn't excite me, turning both ways *does* excite me. Ideas?

Don't knock it till you've tried it. It is by far the cheapest and easiest way to get into real wheel to wheel racing, and it's way more fun than you think it is.

QFT. I spent Saturday in a Super Late Model, ran a 150 lap feature never more than a straightaway off the lead, finished 2nd and lost 8 pounds...which was promptly replaced with beer.

Edit: An SLM is NOT on the cheap end of the spectrum. I moved into this from a Neon, though- and you will never race more for less money.

After a lot of consideration I've decided I want to start out with the z in rallycrossing.
Since the place I just got my dream job with are heavily affiliated with the BMWCCA, I figure I will be running spec e30 or spec e36 sooner or later lol
Rallycross just looks so damn fun, and suuuuuuuper cheap to get into in most areas.

I assume you already have a Z then? Miatas are cheaper than Z's around here

I strongly recomend sarting with Solo:

Maybe doing some Rallycross:

Take an SCCA School (I rented this for that and still do for club races):

Then go vintage racing:

Dave

start off with drag racing- hit the "street grudge racing" night at the local drag strip and see how many passes you can get in.. yes, it's true that you only go for a few seconds at a time and there are no turns, but it is kind of mentally challenging to cut good lights and run consistent times.

then maybe move into some autocross if there is anything hear you..

then hook up with someone that races in one of the bomber classes at a local 1/4 or 3/8 mile dirt track and get some experience there..

Since you are in Pittsburgh, I would look into what used to be called Beaver Run and is now called Pitt Race.
http://pittrace.com/index.html

New owners and now a crappier website but for you and a fresh but not proven Pontiac LeMans, I would focus on "tightening up" the nut that hold on the wheel. That is, hone your driver skill, and this could be done through their PDE (perf driver's ed) aka Track School.
At these events you will confidently learn to drive your own car at speed.
Sample video: http://pittrace.com/vid.html
These gigs cost $200 per day but that will give you a full day of activities.
Next event is July 8th. If I were you, I would go to spectate and check it out.

They also hold autocross events at this location.

Similar "Track Day" events are also at Nelson Ledges Road Course. http://www.nelsonledges.com/default.aspx
Located in Ohio less than 2 hrs from Pittsburgh near Warren, Ohio.

Also Mid-Ohio http://www.midohio.com/ which is 3 hours away.

curtis73 wrote: 3) The car I'm building is a 67 LeMans that will be streetable at least for now.

I owned a '67 LeMans. I'd strongly suggest you get something vastly different to persue racing with. That thing will be an excercise in frustration attempting to turn it into any kind of road racer.

karting and autoX are the biggest bangs for your buck, autoX should improve your car control right up to the limit, and karting offers unparalleled 'cheap' wheel to wheel with very little if any consumables (arrive and drive). The next thing I'd like to get in on is Lemons or Chump as it's the next cheapest but combines the consumable/repair aspect with driving in an enduro. Just my .02

I agree with jrw1621 and ddavid. First, unless it's heavily modified, you may find a '67 LeMans very frustrating if you want to do road racing. If budget allows, find a cheap NA Miata, Escort GT, or any other number of cars more suited to turning and stopping.

Autox is a good place to get some runs in and learn car control before you step up to bigger speeds. From there, you can head off to Pitt Race and do some HPDE days. You'll be on track with other cars and passing is allowed, with a "point by". Great stuff. Then find yourself an established LeMons team looking for additional drivers/team members. That'll scratch your racing itch big time. True wheel to wheel stuff, lots of cars on track and an E36 M3 load of fun. I just started doing that this year and I'm thoroughly addicted.

One of these days I do want to try circle track stuff too. It's fairly cheap to get into and would still be a lot of fun.

The 24 Hours of Lemons in something other than your '67 Lemans seems like a good bet to me, too, but then I'm biased by already being deep into driving in Lemons!

You get tons of seat time, on real race tracks with lots of traffic and lots of speed. It's low budget so you can figure on less than $1000 all in for a weekend with ~4 hours of seat time, pretty good for road course racing. You also get a hell of a party thrown in to the mix on Friday and Saturday nights. I made the mistake of building my car on my first outing and burnt myself out for a bit - since then I have just been driving other people's cars and it's been great! I might finally build up another car for 2013.

My suggestion is to start in a slower car and work your way to faster cars. If you're driving someone else's car, though, it might be tough to find someone to take you in as a newbie driver. That's one of the reasons I ended up building my own car. But nowadays Speedycop usually has a slot or two open for n00bs but you're probably not going to end up with 4 hours of seat time just due to his cars needing worked on a lot. But it'd be a great intro to all aspects of budget racing. And everyone on his team is great to hang out with.

Oh, edit: I also want to try circle track stuff but their safety reputation is pretty poor. Lots of contact, very little in the way of deformable barriers or tech inspections, etc. It's kind of scared me off of it a bit. I might spectate a couple times and see what it looks like.

I would also suggest starting with autocrossing.

It may not be the best of the best racing to some, but getting off the blocks- this is the best way to get going- basic car control, getting used to the feeling of going fast and being on the edge at a low speed, safety, etc.

After comfortable autocrossing, then add in a few open track days.

Both of those events can give you some instruction- but outside of some basic beginner stuff, get used to doing it first (a couple of times autocrossing should do)- so that the instruction isn't overwhelming, since you are just getting used to driving a course (be it cone lined or a track).

Once you get some time under your belt, I suspect you will know what path you then want to really do- hill climb, vintage, LeMons, Chump, B-Spec- whatever. But getting into a car and racing is an important first step.

There are many things that you can do with your street car. Autocross Rally cross Hill limbs have classes for it. Even offer ride alongs. PDE's are close to racing but not. Instructors are available. Even ice racing. Most clubs have street legal classes. These you can do with out modifications to your car. All you need is a legal helmet.

Suggestion 0:
- Commit the funds. You will need a lot of them.

Suggestion 1:
- Buy a finished, reliable race car to get started. You are a fabricator. It will be helpful later to solve problems but it will make for a distraction to learning. Trust me - I am driving a homemade race car. Buy the 1st, build the next one.

Suggestion 2:
- Learn how to drive. I mean really well. So you can lap in the top 10% of any DE without thinking about it and talk to a passenger the entire time without slowing down to think about the drive. NASA, BMWCCA, PCA, others. Make sure your intention to race is known so you get an experienced racer when the time is right. Do as much as you can afford in a compressed amount of time to shorten the steep curve to muscle memory. You CAN get a license in a weekend - I suggest you wait until you have progressed to expert before you go wheel to wheel. Time attack is an excellent proving ground for readiness.

Suggestion 3:
- Take a racing school with BMW, NASA or SCCA and then participate immediately following your license. Don't let the iron go cold so to speak.

Suggestion 4:
- Be honest with yourself and your skills, but never with your budget or you will never turn a wheel in competition.

Good luck.

SCCA driver schools are cheap entry into wheel to wheel road racing, find a local race rental car for school and see if it's your thing. Two regionals, get your license. IT class in a RWD would be a good start and something you can eventually build for starters if you need to DIY.

Check out Steel Cities Region SCCA : http://www.steelcities-scca.org/

Edit: I bet Curtis would frickin' dig SCCA AS class

i started out going fast in a straight line.

while quite the rush, it's hard to go have a blast for 12 seconds then wait another hour or two for another 12 seconds.

i've intended to get into auto-x for the last 5 years. this year is supposed to be the year, but so far everything has conspired against me. it looks like things are finally set that as soon as my plates show up for the impala i can go race. but i am going to go wail on the car at the dragstrip first. because it's still fun as hell.

As for wheel-to-wheel, just drive the Mass. turnpike.

dculberson wrote: Oh, edit: I also want to try circle track stuff but their safety reputation is pretty poor. Lots of contact, very little in the way of deformable barriers or tech inspections, etc. It's kind of scared me off of it a bit. I might spectate a couple times and see what it looks like.

I've been around circle tracks all my life (that's a long time) and I can't recall ever seeing anybody get hurt in a crash. It happens, but it's very rare, especially when you consider how many tracks are running every weekend. I bet it's safer than road racing. Probably by a lot.