In reply to Grtechguy:
This. I learned in an 80's Caravan & Bronco II. Yeah, it was stressful. Needless to say when I thought I had it & tried to bring a customer's car in the bay (Toyota Tercel) & promptly dropping the clutch ensuing in what was probably the only burnout the car ever did, I was pretty embarrassed.
NOHOME wrote: Never teach your wife or GF.
QFT!!!
This is a "Throw Momma From The Train" sort of situation. Find someone else to teach your SO and you can teach theirs. Life is better this way.
rslifkin wrote: And to go with Keith's comment, never try to teach someone on a modern VW / Audi product... Those clutches are the stuff of nightmares for learning (especially when you're thrown in a 2 year old S4 having never driven a manual and having no instruction, just a mental picture of how it's supposed to work). NA Miatas are another easy car to learn on.
I don't know what you've been driving/smoking, but the late model A3 i drive every day has the longest throw, most progressive, idiot proof clutch in the world. And a seamless hill holder system.
In my opinion the late model Audi/VW is the easiest manual to learn on, & yes I own a Miata too.
Dashpot wrote: I don't know what you've been driving/smoking, but the late model A3 i drive every day has the longest throw, most progressive, idiot proof clutch in the world. And a seamless hill holder system. In my opinion the late model Audi/VW is the easiest manual to learn on, & yes I own a Miata too.
The problem with trying to learn on something like an S4 is that the car has lots of torque, lots of grip, and a very, very expensive clutch for when you screw it up and fry it.
I'd use an old VW Beetle for training purposes, if you can find one - I think they were about the easiest car to learn on.
Marjorie Suddard wrote: I learned on Tim's '66 Shelby Mustang. Torque was my friend. Margie
My sister learned how to drive stick back in the day in her husband's 1969 Roadrunner. She kept looking down at the shift lever, so she would nearly drive off the road at each gear change. 
codrus wrote:Grtechguy wrote: You imply the vehicle has sufficient torque. I'm certain my MR2 couldn't do that, nor my 4 banger 86 mustang. The Bronco II we had growing up would start bucking if you didn't give it enough gas while letting the clutch out.Yes it can, you just have to let the clutch out more slowly. It's not the gentlest thing you can do to the clutch life, but if the engine has enough torque to keep the car rolling in 1st gear with the throttle closed, then it has enough torque to get it up to that level using just the clutch.
This. People who never learned the clutch-only method are frequently "certain" that it's simply not possible in their small engine car...And are subsequently left speechless when somebody who did learn the clutch-only mothod shows them just how easily their car can actually do so. And doing so against a slight incline really blows their minds.
In my opinion, clutch-only is hands down the most effective way to teach somebody how to master use of the clutch, which is the single most important part of learning to drive a manual well. I must not be alone in this thought, as that's the first thing they taught at the motorcycle riding school I originally took as well.
It's not necessarily even that tough on the clutch either. My mom taught two teens, and one of those teens taught numerous friends, how to drive this way on her daily driven Isuzu Trooper (4cyl)...And that clutch made it 120k miles.
Never use your DD/autocross car.
(Especially when said car is a pain to change the clutch on)
Don't ask me how I learned this.
In reply to stuart in mn:
Yes, shifter and gear position instruction is also needed. I have them select gears stopped, engine off until learner can select gears looking straight ahead with eyes closed. Otherwise, some want to look down at the shifter while driving.
Dashpot wrote: I don't know what you've been driving/smoking, but the late model A3 i drive every day has the longest throw, most progressive, idiot proof clutch in the world. And a seamless hill holder system. In my opinion the late model Audi/VW is the easiest manual to learn on, & yes I own a Miata too.
I found it had an obnoxiously long throw (longer than an F-350) and a pretty small bite point compared to the length of the throw, so it was a bit tough to get the feel for it. And those clutches are fairly grabby.
Totally use the dirt road method if possible. Oh and if the car is 30-40 years old and still has the original motor mounts, just replace them before starting to teach them. Breaking a motor mount is not exactly the most confidence inspiring to a new driver not that I would know.
I use the clutch pedal only method; I first demonstrate it. I have them put their right foot/leg all the way back against the seat. I also try to find a parking lot that is ever so slightly downhill so car rolls away easier.
Next step is going to 1st 2nd shifts; with my son I had to make him take his right foot and place it on the floor so he would stop inadvertently power shifting. Once we got past that I would have him get to 2nd gear on a slight downhill and do the same clutch pedal only so he could further refine releasing the clutch on upshifts.
After a few months we started on heel & toe downshifts; of course that's another topic.
Tom
No no no no no what is it with all of this teach them to slip the clutch first
,what you do is you tell them to push the clutch in, rev the engine up to 6000rpm, then tell them to dump it.
KyAllroad wrote:NOHOME wrote: Never teach your wife or GF.QFT!!! This is a "Throw Momma From The Train" sort of situation. Find someone else to teach your SO and you can teach theirs. Life is better this way.
I taught the former mrs how to drive a manual. Wasn't a big deal actually.
Don't use your own vehicle.
A technic I stumbled on when teaching was having newbies start with "backing up". For some reason the act of having to look over your shoulder and looking outside the car slows down the clutch release.
They get to practice over and over and over and... But it never fails that the first couple of attempts at going forward they stall the car.
My daughter always gets cars with manual transmission's. Keeps her friends from wanting to borrow them.
NOHOME wrote: Never teach your wife or GF.
I did. Let's just say, it didn't go well.
We figured it out eventually.
Sometimes (depending on the student's grasp of intangible things) is to give them a functional description of what is happening. When I taught my ex wife, she didn't even know that engines "spin." She had heard about pistons going up and down and thought that they directly moved something back and forth in the transmission. Many people have zero clue other than to turn the key and go, so trying to tell them how to do it on the surface (let one out, push the other one) can be confusing since they don't know why the engine revs up too fast, or why it stalls when you let it out too far.
I describe it like this: Imagine the engine is an electric motor spinning slowly. On the shaft of the electric motor is a plate. The wheels are connected to another plate. When you're letting out the clutch, its letting those two plates come together to join the motor with the wheels. Too fast and the motor stalls. At the time I was teaching my wife I was running a shop so I put her Tercel on a lift and showed her. I showed her a clutch assembly and then showed her brake pads and rotors. I told her that the clutch is basically a flat brake pad and the flywheel is like a rotor. Letting out the clutch is much like applying a brake. Then she really understood that the two pedals did very similar but opposite things. One smoothly engages the motor to the wheels to go, the other smoothly engages the wheels to the frame to stop.
That (or some mutation of that) usually helps them understand what they're trying to accomplish instead of just memorizing a bunch of steps.
Getting dropped off 15 miles from home with a basic understanding of clutch comes up, gas goes down worked out pretty well when I was taught. Carmichael CA to Lincoln, at rush hour. Only missed 2 shifts going 1-2-5.
My wife learned in France when her and another abroad student rented a car and it had a manual transmission. They both learned how to drive stick that day, together. Literally together. One was driving and one was shifting!
mndsm wrote:KyAllroad wrote:I taught the former mrs how to drive a manual. Wasn't a big deal actually.NOHOME wrote: Never teach your wife or GF.QFT!!! This is a "Throw Momma From The Train" sort of situation. Find someone else to teach your SO and you can teach theirs. Life is better this way.
fomer Mrs.
Your Honor...I rest my case.
Start with "why".
I taught my wife the way most people describe here. I then told her how to shift to second, and she said "why?".
Most people don't inherently know that the engine RPM range is very different than the wheel RPM range and therefore needs different ratios depending on desired speed. I'd start there.
And I totally taught my six year old who has driven in a parking lot for a while and has not yet stalled the car.
This is part of the test to become an instructor at Team O'Neil. Turns out they get a lot of students who can't drive stick - go figure.
I earned a passing grade with the following method.
Flat ground with the parking brake engaged. Right foot doing nothing. Let the clutch out gently until you feel it start to grab. Push it back in. Do this 5-6 times to get a feel for where the pedal starts to grab. Release parking brake. Still do nothing with the right foot. Slowly release the clutch and get the car rolling without touching the gas. Success? Good. Stop and do it again. Repeat 5-10 times.
Only after that do you start mixing in a little throttle.
We do all this on bog stock Ford Fiestas - so not torque monsters.
Oh yeah - don't over instruct. You'll just overwhelm the person. Let them feel things and process.
I also use the no gas method, then progress to the try and hold the rpm steady while releasing the clutch to teach.
In a 1992 525i with a close ratio and 3:90, I could not demonstrate how not to drive a manual.
Ok watch, if you drop your foot off the clutch it will stall or buck...car smoothly idles away.
Ok if you are in too high of a gear like 4th at 10mph it will buck or rattle/shake...again car smoothly accelerated.
I learned by reading about it as part of a book that I read when I was 9, then tried it for myself in my moms 84 mercury lynx in a parking lot. Nearly hit a wall before I learned to push the clutch in and brake on the stop, so yes practice lots of stopping.
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