Lets say I know someone with aerospace grade titanium fasteners who is wondering what to do with them. The issue is the fasteners are basically kind of odd ball fine thread 12 point or 8 point head, and various torx sizes but everything is a fine thread. There is some weird stuff and some stuff which has been XRF'd and thus scrap. Just curious what the draw to titanium is other than light weight and strength. The stuff I see seems almost too specific to use.
Thanks for any suggestions.
I bet the price for scrap ti is pretty good.
As an jet-mec for the air farce, I used titanium fasteners a whole lot. They are strong and light, that is their whole appeal.
They stick, which makes your ratchet explode. Seriously.
The fasteners stick to each other, then break free explosively. I'm not talking bind like rust, I mean totally stuck, then instantly unstuck. The ratchet promptly blows its guts out, and you have to go find them and put it back together again. Would do this about every 3-5 fastener.
Somehow the fasteners are hard on sockets. As in wearing it out. I would wear out more snap-on sockets taking jet engines apart and back together again than I ever did with cars and the like, using steel nuts and bolts.
Never did I strip the head of a titanium bolt, nor I think have I ever broken one.
Titanium's surface is VERY rough on a micro scale. This is why it grabs onto other materials and will stick.
There is a special anti-sieze for titanium.
foxtrapper wrote: As an jet-mec for the air farce, I used titanium fasteners a whole lot. They are strong and light, that is their whole appeal. They stick, which makes your ratchet explode. Seriously. The fasteners stick to each other, then break free explosively. I'm not talking bind like rust, I mean totally stuck, then instantly unstuck. The ratchet promptly blows its guts out, and you have to go find them and put it back together again. Would do this about every 3-5 fastener. Somehow the fasteners are hard on sockets. As in wearing it out. I would wear out more snap-on sockets taking jet engines apart and back together again than I ever did with cars and the like, using steel nuts and bolts. Never did I strip the head of a titanium bolt, nor I think have I ever broken one.
The local snap on dealer must LOVE you
The work well in bone.
wvumtnbkr wrote: There is a special anti-sieze for titanium.
Phillips Milk of Magnesia.
foxtrapper wrote: Somehow the fasteners are hard on sockets. As in wearing it out. I would wear out more snap-on sockets taking jet engines apart and back together again than I ever did with cars and the like, using steel nuts and bolts.
Wow... that's amazing! I bet it's because the titanium is much harder than the steel that the sockets are made of. It's usually the opposite, very much so.
Titanium isn't harder than hardened steel. This is one of the reasons that you don't see many Titanium knives. That and the whole low-density, need volume for strength, lack of mass, etc.
ScottRA21 wrote: Titanium isn't harder than hardened steel. This is one of the reasons that you don't see many Titanium knives. That and the whole low-density, need volume for strength, lack of mass, etc.
Thanks!
Titanium is bling. useful for some things...
ScottRA21 wrote: Titanium isn't harder than hardened steel. This is one of the reasons that you don't see many Titanium knives. That and the whole low-density, need volume for strength, lack of mass, etc.
It is relatively brittle though, which is another strike against using it as a knife blade.
I like my Ti money clip - not very bling in the natural slightly oxidized grey but it hasn't lost its springiness in over 3 years of being overstuffed (with various credit/bank/membership cards - I rarely have more than $20 case on me)
pigeon wrote: I like my Ti money clip - not very bling in the natural slightly oxidized grey but it hasn't lost its springiness in over 3 years of being overstuffed (with various credit/bank/membership cards - I rarely have more than $20 case on me)
Steel has an infinite fatigue life - pretty hard to beat that.
I can guarantee they don't put titanium fasteners on aircraft for bling.
They make good fireworks
tuna55 wrote:pigeon wrote: I like my Ti money clip - not very bling in the natural slightly oxidized grey but it hasn't lost its springiness in over 3 years of being overstuffed (with various credit/bank/membership cards - I rarely have more than $20 case on me)Steel has an infinite fatigue life - pretty hard to beat that.
Incorrect, It can have infinite fatigue life, if the fatigue stress is low enough.
As a word of caution, Ti fasteners corrode badly when in contact with aluminum, It's called galvanic corrosion.
Ti transfers heat in odd ways / poorly. One more reason Apple went from Ti on the Powerbooks to Aluminum. It's a pretty metal to look at though.
it is however, very light and slightly flexible if I remember correctly. I just know that the bicycle community loves it's titanium hardware for the light weight
ScottRA21 wrote: Titanium isn't harder than hardened steel. This is one of the reasons that you don't see many Titanium knives. That and the whole low-density, need volume for strength, lack of mass, etc.
Works great for dive knives though, where the saltwater environment eventually rusts steel, particularly anything you would want to make a knife out of.
I design aerospace hardware (gas turbines). Fine thread and 12pt heads are typical for that application. I don't see why you can't use it on anything at home, but given the suspect background I wouldn't use it for anything mission-critical - like suspension or brakes.
pres589 wrote: Ti transfers heat in odd ways / poorly. One more reason Apple went from Ti on the Powerbooks to Aluminum. It's a pretty metal to look at though.
Some general properties:
http://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm
Thermal conductivity of Ti (nearly pure) is ~1/10 that of Aluminum. More typical alloys of Ti include Al, and conductivity can be in the 1/3-1/2 range of Al. Regardless they won't be making radiators out of it anytime soon.
Just comparing various materials on matweb, it appears that 6061-T6 aluminum is superior to pure titanium in many ways.
It's ~40% the weight of titanium
it's yield strength is about 20% higher
it's Brinell hardness is about 35% higher
However, titanium is FAR more elastic (40% more elastic)
but the kicker is this... titanium has almost 180% the sheer modulus of 6061-T6
That said I have no idea what typical titanium or aluminum alloys are for fasteners. So this may not really mean anything.
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=1b8c06d0ca7c456694c7777d9e10be5b
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=66a15d609a3f4c829cb6ad08f0dafc01&ckck=1
The Ti oxidizes as soon as it meets Mr. Air. The titanium oxide binds to teh bones real good.
Not to threadjack, but... Matt. Phunny you should show up here. I happen to need a gas turbine engineer to change the world and free us all from the Energy Industry. All you need to do is design a multi-stage gas turbine that runs on some kind of cheap freon type gas (like R134 or whatever) and is in the 10 HP range. I'm looking for close to unity efficiency. After you're done, find me an electrical engineer to design the generator to attach to the shaft. The whole thing needs to be small, one unit, self contained, have only freon in, freon out, electricity out and maybe some type of phase sync circuit for linking multiple units together, and cheap for the Chinese to make (because we don't make anything here anymore). Like for about $500-1000 total. Design that and we can change the world. Oh, and there's no money in it, because if you want to change the world, someone would just rip you off anyway as part of the process that prevents any real change from happening, so it all has to be done for the sake of changing the world and freeing us all from the energy overlords.
And welcome to teh board.
I see what you did there: you compared an optimized alloy to pure Ti. The game changes when you optimize the Ti by alloying it. Then, good things happen. It's not "better" than any other material, but it sure has some neat properties - and it makes a fantastic spring material. A pretty typical Ti alloy, with much better fatigue properties than that 6061-T6: http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=b11bf5655a584cbf92dd7b1675b4cd0c
Taiden wrote: Just comparing various materials on matweb, it appears that 6061-T6 aluminum is superior to pure titanium in many ways. It's ~40% the weight of titanium it's yield strength is about 20% higher it's Brinell hardness is about 35% higher However, titanium is FAR more elastic (40% more elastic) but the kicker is this... titanium has almost 180% the sheer modulus of 6061-T6 That said I have no idea what typical titanium or aluminum alloys are for fasteners. So this may not really mean anything. http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=1b8c06d0ca7c456694c7777d9e10be5b http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=66a15d609a3f4c829cb6ad08f0dafc01&ckck=1
Dr. Hess wrote: The Ti oxidizes as soon as it meets Mr. Air. The titanium oxide binds to teh bones real good. Not to threadjack, but... Matt. Phunny you should show up here. I happen to need a gas turbine engineer to change the world and free us all from the Energy Industry. All you need to do is design a multi-stage gas turbine that runs on some kind of cheap freon type gas (like R134 or whatever) and is in the 10 HP range. I'm looking for close to unity efficiency. After you're done, find me an electrical engineer to design the generator to attach to the shaft. The whole thing needs to be small, one unit, self contained, have only freon in, freon out, electricity out and maybe some type of phase sync circuit for linking multiple units together, and cheap for the Chinese to make (because we don't make anything here anymore). Like for about $500-1000 total. Design that and we can change the world. Oh, and there's no money in it, because if you want to change the world, someone would just rip you off anyway as part of the process that prevents any real change from happening, so it all has to be done for the sake of changing the world and freeing us all from the energy overlords. And welcome to teh board.
Ha!
Our most efficient combined cycle most optimized plants have only just broken the 60% efficiency barrier, and nobody has really bought one yet. Turbine efficiency usually goes down proportionally with size - and these are gigantic.
tuna55 wrote: Our most efficient combined cycle most optimized plants have only just broken the 60% efficiency barrier, and nobody has really bought one yet.
http://m.controleng.com/index.php?id=2819&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=39533&cHash=60a67aca2a
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