Top 25 Drivers of All-Time?

I have to formally disagree with ESPN on their list of "The 25 Greatest Drivers of All Time". You cannot tell me, for example, #10 - Jeff Gordon is better than #24 - Nigel Mansell. Then there is #4 - Michael Scumacher. He is worse than Dale Earnhardt???

This thread should get some activity...

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/racing/columns/story?columnist=blount_terry&id=3400774

Nascar drivers are as relevant to the top 25 list as a stock Aveo is at a Dragstrip

wow Schumacher and Senna are 4 and 5???!!!
Fangio 9th!?? %&&(^&(%^$^

what the hell

Mansell, F1 World Champion in 1992 and CART Champion in 1993, the only person in history to hold both titles at the same time, is 24th... unreal...

Stirling Moss? Not on the list

I think John Force should be higher, 14 championships, and he still drives. Then again, NHRA was my first favorite racing series

In reply to aussiesmg:

Then why isn't Juan Pablo Montoya winning EVERYTHING?! Why doesn't Boris or Dorsey win everything they enter in that series?

Have you ever driven a Stock Car at 180mph with cockpit temps at 150 degrees while being "nudged" by a guy behind you that wants to beat you to the checkered and get a bigger paycheck while trying to keep fans and media happy by not losing your temper when you are intentionally wrecked for no apparent reason that you can remember at the time because you are trying so hard to keep your emotions at bay because someone is sticking a mic in your face and asking REALLY stupid questions.

Being a good DRIVER isn't enough anymore for the media crazed fans.

Dale E. was a GREAT driver! Not because he is dead and not because I jumped the band wagon. Two weeks before his death - he raced in the Rolex 24. He was on OLD slicks - it had started to rain - other cars had rain tires on - he was passing those cars IN HIS CLASS with authority in the rain on SLICKS! Later he said it was one of the most enjoyable races he has EVER run.

Not bad for a guy whose series (NASCAR) stops at the first sign of bad weather.

I made these observations AND I don't like the NASCRAP series!

As far as ESPN and them being qualified to rate the best drivers - Give me a break! Corporate twits feeding the masses to sell more and more sports coverage. It's business and I don't fault them for it - but take it for what it is - BUSINESS. Thus - it will be biased reporting to feed that business.

I'm in a bad mood - gotta pressure wash out the dogs crap area - messy, smelly - ugh!

It's understandable that the list be NASCAR-heavy, coming from ESPN. But the omission of Sir Stirling really sinks the credibility of the whole thing. Hard to argue with the top 2, though I'd put Mario ahead of AJ because Mario won an F1 title, which to me is still the pinnacle of racing accomplishment. AJ is probably ahead of him because of his multiple Indy wins. I don't discount them, but Indy is just a single race, after all, not a season-long championship.

In reply to Rusty_Rabbit84:

Didn't Jacques Villeneuve do the same thing only the other way around (Indy then F1 title) a few years later?

In reply to neon4891:

Just like some don't believe that Stock Car racing is a true motorsport, for whatever reason - some don't give NEAR enough credit to the Drag Racers. Durn Shame!

seeker589 wrote: In reply to Rusty_Rabbit84: Didn't Jacques Villeneuve do the same thing only the other way around (Indy then F1 title) a few years later?

he did win the CART title, but it was in 95, then he was World Champ in 97

No Shelby, Gurney or Hill???

Phil Hill should be on there, only American F1 champ. Graham Hill, Triple Crown winner (F1, Indy 500, 24 Hours of LeMans)

what about McRae? How is Senna that low? Any old Rally B class drivers?

Where's Mickey Thompson? Mark Donohue? Parnelli Jones? Phil Hill? Dan Gurney?

Shirley Muldowney might have been a good driver - but in the top 25? Besides - I hear she was impossible to live with!

One of the MOST underrated drivers I have ever witnessed driving was Max Papis. He drove a Ferrari 333SP at Qualifying lap times for almost two hours trying to catch a sick Riley and Scott Olds that was two laps ahead at the 22 hour mark at the Rolex 24 about 15 years ago. He passed cars with racing lines that defied Physics! He was at the bus-stop chicane when the Olds crossed the finish line. Truely real drama on the racetrack - THAT is why I love racing. Thanks Max!

yet again another "Top XXX Drivers" written by someone that is either narrow minded, misinformed, or completely oblivious.

no mention of scott pruett, any of Audis le mans team, or even Jim Clark?

Non credible.

maroon92 wrote: no mention of scott pruett, any of Audis le mans team, or even Jim Clark? Non credible.

Jim Clark is #8. Agreed, you have to give Pruett his due for both versatility and longevity.

Lists like this might be fun to look at, but they're exersises in futility. How can you compare Force to Schumi? It's apples and oranges.

If you made a list of each series, it may be fair, but I can't fathom comparing Jackie Stewart with Jeff Gordon, etc.

"seeker589 New Reader

In reply to aussiesmg:

Then why isn't Juan Pablo Montoya winning EVERYTHING?! Why doesn't Boris or Dorsey win everything they enter in that series?

Have you ever driven a Stock Car at 180mph with cockpit temps at 150 degrees while being "nudged" by a guy behind you that wants to beat you to the checkered and get a bigger paycheck while trying to keep fans and media happy by not losing your temper when you are intentionally wrecked for no apparent reason that you can remember at the time because you are trying so hard to keep your emotions at bay because someone is sticking a mic in your face and asking REALLY stupid questions.

Being a good DRIVER isn't enough anymore for the media crazed fans."

If you ask me Montoya didn't make it in F1 either. Boris hasn't won everything for the same reasons that you haven't, money and opportunity vs mechanical failures. In his case skill is not in question.

Rubbing is only racing when the racing is for the Circus audience, Nascar is a Circus. I have no regard for a series that goes yellow due to debris (a piece of paper on the track) to close up the field again.

Nascar drivers are good drivers but the top 25 is for the great drivers. Mario Andretti, Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher, those are the greats not to mention many others who were left off this list.

Dale E is the exception but he came from an era when they actually drove cars that were relevant to the consumer and continued if the pavement became moist.

I have driven tin tops at speeds close to that but I had to turn right so it doesn't count.

In reply to aussiesmg:

I hope I'm not annoying you, but it is a discussion board...

I would have to disaggree with Juan not making it in F1. He did have multiple wins and podiums while driving for a top team. There are drivers that have totally failed in F1 with multiple starts and no podiums what-so-ever.

As far as rubbing - I witnessed Mr. Schumaker try to force a car off the road in the first turn at Indy and I have a friend with photos to prove it. On TV watched him crash Damon to get a championship and TRY to crash Jacques and come out with a busted up race car cause of it at the worlds championships when Jacques got his first title.

When people race - greed and emotions will get the better of most humans - weither it is rubbing, bumping, blocking or outright crashing their opponent. Not everyone is a gentleman on the racetrack.

My question is - If a driver uses a race-car as a weapon (even to block) like M. Schue did - is the driver a lesser driver than one who wants to only overtake cleanly to prove his driving skills?

I truly agree the whole yellow for debris off the racing line is crap - like I said - I don't like NASCAR.

I'm not busting on Boris - He represents all us little guys when he drives - but some of his guest rides in NASCAR were top shelf. Much of the time racing comes down to luck - both on the track and off.

I am and always will be a Senna fan, but while I hated Schumacher's actions back in the day, he became, beyond question, a great driver.

I had high hopes for Montoya and while he did win a bit, he should have done so very much more with the equipment he had. I think if Mark Webber had been in that car at that time he would have achieved so much more. Many drivers have failed in F1 due to insufficient money, the wrong crew, and other issues, only a few cars are really likely to win a championship, on the right day anyone can win a race.

Greed on the track is called competitiveness. If you aren't out to win at all costs you will NEVER be at the top. Not sure I like what that brings at in people at all times but it is a fact when 30 Alfa males are out to prove they are the best.

Nascar is about the TV ratings, not about the racing. Note this is the organisation and I would drive for them too, so much freaking money on offer

aussiesmg wrote: Rubbing is only racing when the racing is for the Circus audience, Nascar is a Circus.

I am no NASCAR fan but if you use that definition then you cover spec miata with your broad brush. Those are some of the rubbin'ist motherberkeleyers out there. The field looks like crumpled tin foil after 25 minutes. ;)

CMC also, but rarely do we punt another car off the road to gain a place,

That wasn't the best quote, what I meant was the rubbing in Nascar is actively promoted to raise the audience's bloodlust/bloodpressure.

aussiesmg wrote: CMC also, but rarely do we punt another car off the road to gain a place, That wasn't the best quote, what I meant was the rubbing in Nascar is actively promoted to raise the audience's bloodlust/bloodpressure.

I wasn't disagreeing that NASCRAP is a circus - just leave the rubbin' out