I’m considering getting a vehicle to tow an open car trailer. Is it better to get a newer “smaller” vehicle (ie big unibody SUV, midsized truck) or a older 3/4 ton truck (early 2000’s SuperDuty)?
I want to be able to tow my Miata to auto-x events or be able to pick up project cars at a moments notice. I look at cars less than 3500 lbs max and it looks like I can find basic steel car haulers that weigh around 1500 lbs. So, this would put me at 5000 lbs, which is at the limit for most seven seat SUV’s. I could get an SUV to replace the wife’s Sienna, or I could get a Nissan Frontier or Xterra to daily drive myself. Or I could get a 1999+ F250 for only tow duty. I could spend $10-15k on a SUV or small truck to daily drive, but I would like to spend $5k or less on a truck only for towing. Is it better to have something newer that is maxed out on tow capacity or something old that is barely at half it’s capacity?
As a subtopic, I think it would be fun to have a stick shift tow vehicle (my wife’s van is our first automatic car), which is why I’m considering the Frontier and Xterra which have a 5000 lbs or more row capacity with a stick shift. And there are lots of stick shift Super Duty trucks around. What does everyone think of stick shift tow vehicles?
For your needs/wants a "Super Duty" is overkill. An open trailer is much easier to pull than say an enclosed trailer. I have a 2013 F150 Ecoboost and when I tow my open trailer, even with a 2500# car on it it's almost as if it's not there behind me. When I hook up my enclosed trailer, even empty you know you're pulling a load.
I would think that pulling an enclosed trailer puts more load on an engine than the weight your pulling.
Any SUV with a tow rating of 5K should work for you. Now if you happen to live in a hilly part of the country then I could see getting something with a higher rating.
I just happen to live near Chicago and things are pancake flat compared to say W. Virginia.
As far as stick shifts go, I think I'd much rather have the Allison in my truck. :) I love manuals, but towing isn't the kind of driving that's improved by one.
As for side of tow vehicle, where do you live? How many mountains are how much high wind are you going to be towing in?
When considering whether or not to replace your wife's Sienna with a tow vehicle, you need have to good answer to the question of what she's going to drive when you've taken her car to go autcrossing. :)
I suspect a $5K F-250 is going to be used up, people buy those kinds of trucks to work. A $5K Suburban 2500, OTOH, will tow just as well and will have spent most of its life going to the mall.
The highest question is if you want a dedicated tow vehicle or a dual purpose SUV/CUV.
We went through that same decisions some time ago- for many years, we leased a pick up to tow with, and then each had a car to drive to work. Then we noticed that we could replace one of our cars with an Edge which can tow exactly what we have. Since then, it's been one dual purpose vehicle and a car.
For us, the truck was not just about cost, as space we had factored a lot into what we could put in our yard.
In terms of pulling, the SUV/CUV has pulled fine- the biggest factor in stability is how you load the trailer. So make sure you have the proper tongue weight, and it will be stable and smooth. And trailer brakes rock.
While the SUV/CUV pulls fine (MUCH better than a 3.0l Ranger with higher rating), the best for us was a full sized pick up- it pulled as if nothing was there (other than the crappy gas mileage).
So if you WANT just one dual purpose vehicle, that will work great.
I liked towing with a pushrod 4.0l Ranger over a 4.7l Durango. Was more stable, accelerated better (as much as it matters when towing), and got twice the fuel economy - 20mpg vs. 11. If you kept it over 65mph it didn't need to be downshifted from 5th to go up the mild hills in central Ohio.
This with towing a steel bed twin axle open trailer with a 2600lb car on top.
You need a Buick Roadmaster wagon
In reply to Knurled. :
Was that 4.0L Ranger a stick shift?
Logically, I should probably just get a Ecoboost F150, but I would rather daily drive something smaller with a stick. This is the main reason I want the Frontier/Xterra. Plus, 1/2 ton crew cab trucks are expensive, like $20k+ for a 10 year old trucks.
New diesel, old diesel, new gasser, truck, SUV,...they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Get what you can find and afford that still does the job. I would also add that if you just want to tow, you might not need 4x4. And diesel trucks without 4x4 are much much more affordable. They’re also more likely to be from places like Alabama or Mississippi and therefore clean. My pick: early 2000’s Dodge 4x2 dually. Those things just have a low and mean look to them.
As a tow vehicle are there any advantages to the midsize SUV/truck?
Old vs New... How much of a factor is rust in your area?
In reply to John Welsh :
I’m in NW Ohio, so rust is a possibility in the area.
And I have an 1987 E350 Box Truck (former Uhaul) which I have decided is a bad idea to turn into a two vehicle due to rust and the fear it will die on the side of the road with a trailer attached.
In reply to Nate90LX :
I'm in Sandusky and I tow with The Gov't Mule
SVreX
MegaDork
3/3/19 12:13 p.m.
In reply to Nate90LX :
You definitely do not need a Super Duty. Don’t pay extra for one (I have one).
If you've never driven a truck with a manual, you are in for a shock. They are NOT fun to drive. Totally different than a manual car.
Extremely heavy clutch means you pretty much have to stand on it for every shift. It will wear your leg out.
The ONLY reason for a manual truck is if you have a need for a granny gear, and your towing needs definitely do not warrant it. Awesome if you want to pull stumps or horse trailers. For a 3500 lb car on a trailer? Phhh!
I'm not sure if this answers any of the questions but I had a Ridgeline that I towed an E30 and some E36's around a handful of times, on one of those heavy Uhaul trailers. It was rated to 5K pounds and I'm sure I was right at that max. I never took that set-up into the mountains but it was perfectly fine going up and down I5 (which is mostly flat, like Ohio). It wasn't exactly a powerhouse, but it was never stressful to drive.
However, I now have an Ecoboost F150 for work and the towing experience is in another league. I pulled my E30 over Mt. Hood and I forgot it was back there. During the steepest part of the climb, I went around a slower car, punched the gas and it accelerated like it wasn't even hitched up. Despite this advantage, I'd still rather have a smaller vehicle day to day. That thing is a pain in the ass to park.
Also, I'd be a little apprehensive with the Xterra, since the wheelbase is so short. I saw one towing a camper a couple months back and it was swaying a bit more than I'd want. I wouldn't have a problem towing with a Frontier though.
kilgoretrout said:
Also, I'd be a little apprehensive with the Xterra, since the wheelbase is so short. I saw one towing a camper a couple months back and it was swaying a bit more than I'd want. I wouldn't have a problem towing with a Frontier though.
I have seen a lifted 2 door wrangler towing a 21ft dual axle camper around here. It scares me. Note a 2door wrangler has a 1500 tow rating.
SVreX said:
In reply to Nate90LX :
You definitely do not need a Super Duty. Don’t pay extra for one (I have one).
If you've never driven a truck with a manual, you are in for a shock. They are NOT fun to drive. Totally different than a manual car.
Extremely heavy clutch means you pretty much have to stand on it for every shift. It will wear your leg out.
The ONLY reason for a manual truck is if you have a need for a granny gear, and your towing needs definitely do not warrant it. Awesome if you want to pull stumps or horse trailers. For a 3500 lb car on a trailer? Phhh!
FYI, my 2010 Dodge 2500 has a nice light clutch on it. I agree that they're not fun to drive, but I can't complain about clutch weight. Very different from my FIL's 90's gas F350. I think his 2006 Dodge 3500 might be heavier as well, it's been a while. I bought the stick because I didn't like how the autos shifted, but a modern auto is probably a better choice for towing. And any super duty truck you find for $5k is going to be old and tired and probably have a massively heavy clutch.
Anyhow, if you don't go crazy on the trailer weight, you'd probably be pretty good with a midsize SUV. Our 2000 Grand Cherokee V8 would handle your 5000 lb load with room to spare.
jrh2009
New Reader
3/3/19 12:39 p.m.
If I were in your shoes, I'd grab an 03 or newer 4Runner 2wd. They get 20mpg and can tow up to 5000lbs.
Alternatively, I'd also take a 2wd 99-07 Chevy/GMC extended cab shortbed with the 5.3. These are very affordable, extremely comfortable, and mileage isnt terrible (for a truck). These things are some of the most comfortable highway vehicles around.
I tow my track car back and forth with an 05 Sierra half ton, and after spending all day in a track car, getting in the truck with sofa seats, lots of room, quiet exhaust and a smooth ride feels great.
In reply to John Welsh :
Your Govt mule post is part of why I want a Super Duty.
In reply to SVreX :
I know the SD/3/4 ton is overkill now, but looking at the specs from 15 year old trucks (unlike today) there are a bunch of engine/trans/wb/gear ratio combinations that have tow ratings under 5000 lbs.
I get that truck stick shifts are different than a Miata manual trans. I drove my father-in-law’s I-6 F150 with a manual and I liked it in a different way. Plus I love my manual sub compact farm tractor (although it sucks for mowing). I might be a control freak when it comes to my vehicle transmissions
In reply to kilgoretrout :
In anything with a small WB or even a small truck, I would get a weight distribution hitch for sway and tongue weight.
This Dodge Dakota Crew is on my watch list for this week's auction.
Could be a good flip if it stays under $2k and if the tailgate is still functional.
However, these are only tow rated for 4,500 pounds with the small 3.7L.
jrh2009 said:
If I were in your shoes, I'd grab an 03 or newer 4Runner 2wd. They get 20mpg and can tow up to 5000lbs.
Alternatively, I'd also take a 2wd 99-07 Chevy/GMC extended cab shortbed with the 5.3. These are very affordable, extremely comfortable, and mileage isnt terrible (for a truck). These things are some of the most comfortable highway vehicles around.
I tow my track car back and forth with an 05 Sierra half ton, and after spending all day in a track car, getting in the truck with sofa seats, lots of room, quiet exhaust and a smooth ride feels great.
I agree with the 5.3. Then if you decide to, you can go full Sloppy on it and probably get low 11’s with traction for cheap.
This is one that partially depends on how far you go. While I would never recommend an "inadequate" vehicle, I wouldn't hesitate to push the boundaries a little if all you ever do is tow it 10 miles. Most modern vehicles have overkill brakes (but notice I said most), and if you are only going short distances once every few months, I wouldn't care if it had a 4-banger and high gearing. That would be one of those situations where you would be buying a vehicle to be good at not towing and just put up with its not-ideal towing characteristics for a brief time. No need to buy a big, heavy, gas guzzling dually when 90% of the time it will be a DD.
If you plan on hitting every autocross in the tri-state area every weekend, go a little bigger.
For perspective: I towed 10k lbs with a B-body wagon once. Brakes were OK because the trailer had well-tuned surge brakes. Power was a wheezy 140 hp 305 sent through a wimpy THM200 transmission and 2.73 gears. Suspension was totally inadequate. Tires were crying. But I was going 4 miles on rural roads and it was a cake walk. I also full-timed in a 10k lb travel trailer that was towed by an F250 powerstroke. After driving all day on the highway with crosswinds and trucks, it was a very active endeavor and really limited the distance I could go before just being tired of constantly being "on duty."
For the most part, yes, newer is better. For example, old S10 Blazer would have had a 7.5" rear axle and 9" drum brakes. Newer S10 had an 8.5" rear and 10" drums. The Trailblazer that replaced the S10 had a 9.5" rear and 11" discs. You'll find that kind of progression in many vehicles.
Here is what I consider to be the most important parts of a tow vehicle:
- Adequate braking (on both the trailer and vehicle)
- Adequate cooling
- supplemental transmission cooling
- transmission needs to have a track record of being reliable in towing situations
- Adequate wheelbase; the more wheelbase you have, the less leverage the trailer has over the car in sway situations.
- adequate tires. You'll likely be adding 600+ lbs of tongue weight which will be closer to 750 lbs at the tires since it has the additional leverage of the distance from the axle to the hitch. Don't use the max weight on the sidewall, it can be BS. If you have a passenger tire that says 2000 lbs and an LT C-range or XL range that says 2000 lbs, and then load them to 2000 lbs, the passenger tire will look half flat and be squishy. Two things are at play here: 1) passenger tires are rated for very intermittent use at those loads. They are designed to not explode at 2000 lbs for that brief period that you and your 4 kids and your luggage are on the way to the airport once a year. 2) they lack the sidewall integrity to prevent sideways flexion. This phenomenon gets less noticeable with lower profile tires, but still, a real C-range or better tire should be a minimum. Example: my previous F250, the previous owner cheaped out and put P-metric tires on it. Just towing my 3500 lb boat you could tell it was not well controlled. My current Ranger has C-range tires on it and the smaller truck actually does a better job controlling the same boat.
And, again, all of those above "adequate" things have to be tempered with how much you really tow and under what conditions. Your "adequate" might be a B-body wagon with a 305 and drum brakes, or it might be a new F150.
In reply to Nate90LX :
I just bought a 2012 SD... I'm not a Ford guy. Compared to the 2017 Tundra I had before it is harder to drive, and the turning radius is garbage. Otherwise, it is equally good (or better) to anything else I have owned.
The SD is overkill for what I really need too. But, i wanted the safety of a large truck for my family.
On the topic of stick shift tow vehicles:
I don't mind them a bit and my current tow rig is a manual. The only time I mind them is on larger trailers where precision backing is necessary; e.g. backing my travel trailer up a hill into the exact spot I want behind a tree. Fortunately, I have 4x4 with low range which helps a great deal. I even retrofitted manual locking hubs so that I can get the low range without the 4x4 fighting my steering.
I prefer manuals in general, and (as long as it is beefy enough) I know that a clutch is cheaper than an auto tranny rebuild. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy when my right foot is mashed to the floor that I have a physical steel-on-steel connection instead of fancy hydraulics holding 20 pieces of paper together.
