Tow Vehicles: Where is the Sweet Spot?

Where is the sweet spot where a 3/4 ton truck of SUV has done a lot of depreciation, but is still new enough to be genuinely reliable?

My current tow mule is an '88 Chevy 1500 2wd with a 305 and the 5 Spd. I'm definitely going to an auto trans (read: 4L80-E) for my next truck for ease of maneuverability with trailer.

BUT, the major problem I have with the truck is that it just needs a lot of maintenance/repair. Nothing major has gone wrong, but every time I turn around something needs work. I want spend my garage hours on fun cars, not my tow vehicle.

So, what's the sweet spot?

Side note: I've looked into 3/4 ton vans, but I see two problems. 1. 3/4 ton vans either have 2 seats or 15, I'd like 4-8. 2. How weird would I be if I started DD'ing a cargo van... when I work in a very white-collar field? Also, they aren't that much cheaper than same-year, same mileage trucks.

Buy two seater van and install a couch, TV and video games. No one will think your van is weird if it becomes the new break room

In reply to bluej:

You know... my GF said a cargo van wouldn't be too weird if I had someone paint cool murals on the sides.

Unfortunately, maintenance on an older vehicle is unavoidable. Just try and get the best one you can for the money. Also, check with your insurance on cargo vans, some charge more as they see them as commercial vehicles.

The 90s to early 2000s Suburbans of 3/4 ton variety are out there and usually cheaper than the same 1/2 ton model. Conversion vans can usually be found pretty cheap, but harder to find in 3/4 ton-up versions, most seem to be 1/2 tons.

My truck is a 2000. Silverado 2500 6.0/4L80E. I've had it for about 4 1/2 years. It's been the most dependable vehicle I've ever owned. The only fix I had to do was a waterpump. I did a t-case pump rub plate just to be safe as well. It's due for some front end work and tires, but after that I'd think it will be perfect for some time again. It's likely worth around $7500 up here, not sure how that translates to the US of A prices.

The original sticker price on this truck (full load LT, heated seats etc) that I found in the glove box was $47 freakin thousand dollars. I'd say it's done a fair bit of depreciating...

It was my DD but since June the Neon has replaced it for that. I just use it for towing now.

ShadowSix wrote: 1. 3/4 ton vans either have 2 seats or 15, I'd like 4-8.

Get one with 15 and remove 2 rows? Or get one with 2 and install 2 rows?

My family had a 3/4 GM Van in the late 90s. That thing rocked from a utility standpoint. My parents, me, my sister, 2 dogs, and anything we wanted to bring with us inside the van, with a 30 foot 7000lb camper in tow behind. We're talking 4 bikes, a cooler with a weeks worth of cold food, couple crates of other food, a suitcase per person, etc.

A seat could be installed/removed in ~5 mins, no tools required. A second person was helpful to lift it in/out of the van though.

In reply to Gasoline:

There is even one available locally!

http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/4051188677.html

I would be shooting at early 2000s given the criteria. LS/4l80e has got to be one of the best drivetrain options ever sold for just getting the job done without breaking or needing complicated repairs.

I would be looking at GM trucks and vans with that drivetrain.

Although harder to find, you could get a 3/4 ton window van and pull out the last row of seats to give you more space. Keep an eye out for one without the extension at the back as that (from what I understand) isn't as good for towing.

FWIW, Ford offered the ubiquitous 7.3L diesel in their vans for the same years as the trucks (which might be better mileage as a DD). Chevy offered the diesel in the Express vans, but those are a little harder to find.

I'm 99% sure that when we gear up for karting next year, my new tow vehicle will be a cargo van with a diesel. As it offers good towing, lockable storage, and a temporary sleeping area if needed. Plus, they're usually taken better care of because they're often fleet owned.

-Rob

Wait, did I miss what you were towing?

I wouldn't be amiss looking for a 7.3 powerstroke. The Excursions can still be found, but will be a premium over a van. We had an F250 that was running 325k strong. It needed a started, some interior stuff window button, and a window regulator, and a AC compressor. The truck was solid and could pull 22-24 on the highway if you kept it at 70. Towing it ran 16 or so MPG.

If you get one with an automatic and at or over 150k you may want to look at the tranny. Ours had been rebuilt around there. If the truck was used to tow a lot, well it can be a weak point. Other than that, it was a hoss.

We got rid of it for a new cummins dually. We needed the power, and the extra payload with the new trailer.

I have generally found that 10 years is the sweet spot. Anything older is beaten up and needs a lot of maintance.. anything newer and the depreciation curve is steeper than I like.

at 10 years old, you can easily find vehicles with 50,000 to 75,000 miles

My tow vehicle is a - '94 Ford conversion van, 5.8L, modified tranny valve body, Bilsteins, Hellwig sway bars, tow package, and all the rear seating removed. One of the toughest combinations ever produced. 158,000 miles and runs perfectly. The PO was quoted over $3k for ball joints, brakes, and some poor running conditions to correct (only leaking vacuum hoses), so they dumped it for $1500. I spent about $1000 updating the van. Tows my E30 like its not even back there. Gas mileage is the same whether towing or not!

Thinkkker wrote: Wait, did I miss what you were towing? I wouldn't be amiss looking for a 7.3 powerstroke. The Excursions can still be found, but will be a premium over a van. We had an F250 that was running 325k strong. It needed a started, some interior stuff *window button, and a window regulator*, and a AC compressor. The truck was solid and could pull 22-24 on the highway if you kept it at 70. Towing it ran 16 or so MPG. If you get one with an automatic and at or over 150k you may want to look at the tranny. Ours had been rebuilt around there. If the truck was used to tow a lot, well it can be a weak point. Other than that, it was a hoss. We got rid of it for a new cummins dually. We needed the power, and the extra payload with the new trailer.

24mpg highway with a diesel Excursion? I'm listening..

10 - 15 years is a good range, when vehicles start to get to the flat spot of the depreciation curve, but before they're worn out. Bear in mind, though, that trucks seem to hold their value more like a piece of equipment than like an automobile. My '00 F350 (7.3, 4x4,crew cab, long bed SRW) set me back 9400, with 147,000 on the clock. The window sticker in the glovebox had a tick under 39,000 as the original price.

Obviously diesel vs gas is a different curve. I was tempted to go gas but since I use my truck pretty much only as a truck, and I prefer the driving characteristics of a diesel when towing and hauling, I stuck with the oil burner. I sold my old truck, a '92 Dodge Cummins, for $4500. I'd owned it for 8 years, put 70,000 miles on it, and never had a major repair. I'd paid $4800 for it.

My 7.3 Powerstroke Ford gets about 12 mpg towing a 9,000 pound trailer. I've heard the chips really improve the MPGs. I've only had the truck since July, but I'm very tempted to try a programmer on it. I don't drive it enough without a trailer to know what it gets empty, but I'd guess probably 15 or so.

I'm starting to look at used Sprinters.

Why do you want a 3/4 ton for towing? What weight are you towing?

From 1990-2000, MOST 1/2 tons appropriately equipped could tow almost as much as 3/4 or 1 tons. It only came down to engine availability. Trucks became a lot more "creature comfort" orientated around the middle of the 90's.

I'd be more worried about what the previous owner did with it and how many miles are on the vehicle than actual age. My personal favourite that I champion is the 96-2000 gm trucks with the 5.7L. I could understand getting one of those in a 3/4 ton. I wouldn't do the other brands in a 3/4 ton without their respective diesels.

Why 3/4 ton? Because the only domestic transmission I trust (4L80) only comes in 3/4 and up GM products. If I end up with a lighter load and want to go to something 1/2 ton-ish then I'm going 100 Series Land Cruiser shopping.

Currently I tow a ChumpLemons CRX on a hilariously overbuilt tractor, maybe I can score an aluminum trailer and cut down on total weight. The existing trailer, tools, car, etc. is too much for my Chevy 1500.

I may DD the tow vehicle, hence not wanting to get a creeper van.

EDIT: That said, I know what tow vehicles I like, I'm more looking for the GRM-tested most efficient age range.

I agree that 10 years is the sweet spot. I bought my 03 Suburban 2500 4x4 a year ago for about 20% of its original price with 120k well cared miles on it. I hope to be able to get another 10 years out of it and will still probably be able to sell it for $5k at that time. The 6.0 4l80e combo was a major factor in getting it, it tows up to 7500 without a problem, but a 10,000 lb 26' box was a bit of work for it in the mountains, as I only have the 3.73 gears and slightly oversize tires.

I try not to daily drive it much, as it never seems to get more than 12mpg, even driving gingerly, most of its use is with a trailer hooked to it, or full of stuff or people, it's a wonderful beast of burden.

What's the consensus on the 8.1/4L80 combo?

BBC Suburban

Or this: http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/4053226337.html

Tows like a dream, passes everything but a gas pump. Realistically, probably not much worse mileage than I get with the 6.0, especially when towing as it isn't working as hard.

ShadowSix wrote: Why 3/4 ton? Because the only domestic transmission I trust (4L80) only comes in 3/4 and up GM products. If I end up with a lighter load and want to go to something 1/2 ton-ish then I'm going 100 Series Land Cruiser shopping.

Why the 4L80 instead of the Allison 1000?

In reply to codrus:

I like the Allison too! Just haven't seen too many in my price range yet. Two great slushboxes.