Toyota Altezza 3SGE VVTI Engine with a 6 Speed RWD Transmission IS300

pointofdeparture said:

bigdaddylee82 said:

153 ft lbs at 6500 and 181 HP at 7800 at the wheels, with 4AGE ITBs, some sexy, bundle of snakes, stainless, long tubes, and an aftermarket LINK ECU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMANCWtYeGs

Exactly - that's not bad. But a K20A2 with many fewer mods (bolt-ons and a pro tune) will put down 210+HP at the wheels.

Again, I'm not trying to trash the BEAMS, they are super cool and unique. But objectively, they just don't compete with the equivalent Hondas. Bone stock K20s with a Hondata flash typically put down 190-195whp. It takes a pretty heavily modded BEAMS to hit that.

Where Toyota really blows Honda out of the water is FI motors like the 3S-GTE.

The BEAMS 3SGE was a technology refresh to a very old iron block platform that dates back to the early 80's. It's neat if you like Toyota stuff and it fits what you have, however the Honda K-series is a generation or two newer, from the folks that specialize in high-strung NA engines.  No question the K-series is a better platform...if it fits what you have.

The Gen 4 3SGTE would be the route I would go for more power, given that a 3SGE fits your application.  With a manual boost controller, you're at 280-300whp off the shelf, and it bolts to this Altezza/IS200 RWD transmission.

Buy this package for $1300, buy a Caldina 3SGTE for $1300, combine the two and sell off the leftovers to recoup what you can.

Given the popularity of the Gen 4 3SGTE over here for MR2 swaps, you can probably get parts support from folks like Prime MR2 pretty easily.  

bigdaddylee82 said:

In reply to Flynlow :

Neat!

Did you procure that from one of the eBay vendors?

Craigslist, believe it or not.   I was searching the nova/dc vehicle section for a 2jzge donor, and on a whim moved over to "auto parts".  There were 3 jdm import shops, one in baltimore, one in sterling, and one in manassass, that all had beams swaps.

After reviewing the speed academy series, i decided to change direction and go from the 6cyl to the 4cyl for my car ('77 Celica).

Honda is foreign to me.

I'm guessing you're not getting a K20A2 in RWD?  What's the answer, S2000 transmission?

The appeal of the BEAMS is the whole package, Toyota reliability, and "everything" you need for <$1500.  I'd happily leave a 20-30 HP on the table vs. the Honda, to save a grand or two.  The BEAMS stock, is triple the HP of what I'd be swapping it into originally had.

3SGTE has been on my radar for a long time, I've day dreamed about building a USDM "ST205" out of a ratty trailer park Celica and a couple JDM half cuts many times.

I've looked into the RWD options for the 3SGTE too, there's some chatter on the various forums about whether or not the 3SGE's, J60 6 speed is really up to the task.  Probably with a light vehicle, and using your head, it'd be alright.

I'm not considering the 3SGTE for this particular project, simply because I can get enough power from the N/A version, and packaging is going to be challenging enough, even without having to worry about turbo plumbing.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Dean.

Lee, next time you're in town, check out my 4th gen RAV4. 

bigdaddylee82 said:

I've looked into the RWD options for the 3SGTE too, there's some chatter on the various forums about whether or not the 3SGE's, J60 6 speed is really up to the task.  Probably with a light vehicle, and using your head, it'd be alright.

I'm a Toyota fan, so I definitely support the Beams on it's own merits.  My experience has been that Toyota transmissions are pretty stout....at least in MR2 applications.  Plenty of people swap in big V6s and 3SGTEs with their S54s and they seem to live.  The Turbo E153 seems to be able to handle anything you can throw at it.  

Edit: quick search says the Aisin AZ6 (Toyota J160) seems to have been used in plenty of other familiar platforms -- Miata, Nissan Silvia, RX-8, BRZ/FRS.

In reply to Flynlow :

Awesome! Will the front sump work with the stock Celica cross member? I used to have a '77 Fastback and an extra 100hp would have helped a ton!

bigdaddylee82 said:

Honda is foreign to me.

I'm guessing you're not getting a K20A2 in RWD?  What's the answer, S2000 transmission?

You can use the S2000 transmission, but there are better (cheaper / smaller / less expensive / more durable) options these days since the K swap has gained traction in the Miata circles.  KMiata BMW ZF kit is probably the route I'd go, but there are adapters for the Nissan CD009 also (among others).

pasta said:

bigdaddylee82 said:

Honda is foreign to me.

I'm guessing you're not getting a K20A2 in RWD?  What's the answer, S2000 transmission?

You can use the S2000 transmission, but there are better (cheaper / smaller / less expensive / more durable) options these days since the K swap has gained traction in the Miata circles.  KMiata BMW ZF kit is probably the route I'd go, but there are adapters for the Nissan CD009 also (among others).

Can you get a K20 and swap components and ZF transmission shipped for $1000-1200?

That is the appeal of the BEAMS.  It's very cheap as far as dropouts go.

The $$$ of this to me is the biggest up side. 170 hp at the wheels. A 6 speed trans that is a bolt up that is designed to work with the motor. All the electronics (still don’t know about the throttle). All for under $1500 to my door. 

hobiercr said:

In reply to Flynlow :

Awesome! Will the front sump work with the stock Celica cross member? I used to have a '77 Fastback and an extra 100hp would have helped a ton!

Visual inspection says yes, but we didn't measure.  The front anti-sway bar is an issue, though. 

dream build of mine would be this drivetrain in a ae85/6. 

The Gen 4 3SGTE would be the route I would go for more power, given that a 3SGE fits your application.  With a manual boost controller, you're at 280-300whp off the shelf, and it bolts to this Altezza/IS200 RWD transmission.

In an IS300 I wouldn't even bother with this. I'd just buy a 1JZGTE drivetrain at that point unless I needed to be 2 liter for classing issues. I didn't read much posts earlier than this so if that's a factor then ya, go this route, but otherwise why? This is a mid sized sedan and the 1JZ engines are not that expensive. 

It would be awesome though to see this car in Optima Ultimate Street Car in the 2.0l turbo category (GTL?)

hobiercr said:

In reply to Flynlow :

Awesome! Will the front sump work with the stock Celica cross member? I used to have a '77 Fastback and an extra 100hp would have helped a ton!

Not 100% sure.  I agree with pushrod, it looked close, but i punched the easy button and went with xcessive manufacturing's swap kit.   Need another weekend in the garage to make sure everything is going to be hassle free, but it *should* convert most of the front to ae86 spec, which opens up suspension and brake options.   

We are likely going to have to fab up a swaybar though, apparently that's not something drifters care about.  

In reply to Flynlow :

Mmmmm 1st gen celica, I miss my ra29 :-/

Theres a company in england that makes an engine mount and trans adapter for 1uz is300. I think that's the next is300 I'll build, I think an is400 would be a hoot. Weight reduction and move rearward would be good too. 

In reply to Carbon :

Based on my first hand GS300 vs GS430 experience, I say DO IT.

 The TB is cable actuated with a DBW motor. Without DBW plugged in, the ECU has some fits and the throttle blade only opens at 75%. I think xccessive mfg have something for 100% throttle.

Sure a V8 is cool but why though? 1JZ has been done many many times, parts are aplenty, it's a good engine especially if you get the later VVT version, etc. Sure a V8 would be cool but why reinvent the wheel? 1JZ is a proven setup on this car. 

And if you want weight reduction and move rearward and you want a V8 there is a better V8 out there for this lol. 

In reply to kanaric :

Im on my 3rd is300 build, the first 2 were jz's, I like doing things that I haven't done and I think a is-f style build on an early is would be cool. Plus it'd handle good with that weight off the nose. 

dean1484 said:

Is there a bolt up 6 speed for a 4age?  Back when I was playing with 4ages a lot you basically were limited to the t50 and I think there were only two gearing choices. Neither were that good. . Better than nothing but horrible by today’s standards especially with the 4age being all about life over 4000 rpm. 

yes - currently the trick set up is this - it allows the J160 to bolt up to am "A" block.

https://www.sq-engineering.com/product/gearbox-adapter-kit-4age-7a-to-j160-s-3sge-beams/

I've now had the J160 in my car for about 20,000 miles... I LOVE it!   

It has a number of advantages over many other options....

In reply to oldeskewltoy :

Is there a way to source that box without buying the BEAMS?

Knurled. said:

pasta said:

bigdaddylee82 said:

Honda is foreign to me.

I'm guessing you're not getting a K20A2 in RWD?  What's the answer, S2000 transmission?

You can use the S2000 transmission, but there are better (cheaper / smaller / less expensive / more durable) options these days since the K swap has gained traction in the Miata circles.  KMiata BMW ZF kit is probably the route I'd go, but there are adapters for the Nissan CD009 also (among others).

Can you get a K20 and swap components and ZF transmission shipped for $1000-1200?

 

That is the appeal of the BEAMS.  It's very cheap as far as dropouts go.

No, but I was also not commenting on price, I was commenting on the transmission option.  A K24A2 and ZF transmission would be about the number you quoted though.

Dollars per hp including the cost of a six speed trans and all accessories makes the BEAMS basically un beatable. 

Fitzauto said:

In reply to oldeskewltoy :

Is there a way to source that box without buying the BEAMS?

buy both, and sell the beams.........