Photographs Courtesy Toyota
After a 21-year absence of the Supra nameplate in the U.S., Toyota officially revealed the 2020 Toyota Supra at the 2019 North American International Auto Show in Detroit. Going on sale later this year, the Supra will be available in two distinct trims: 3.0 and 3.0 Premium. Also available in limited numbers is a Launch Edition, which …
The internet comments..................
In reply to Jerry :
But the BMW tuning!
I'm kinda cold on the whole thing after ten years of teasers, updates, promises, and speculation. At least they mostly got rid of the phallic nose the concept car had.
I do wonder how it is to drive.
I think I like it better in silver than in red. Still don't like that it's a Toyota wrapper over a BMW, but I'm not the target audience anyway.
Having owned or co-owned Supras of all four generations, I'm happy at a first impression. I see a lot of 2000GT in the design, a bit of third gen Viper in the line that runs from above the rear wheel to the bottom of the front wheel, and some Porsche Cayman in the hatch glass / rear fender line from a side profile. All in all, the style isn't bad as far as modern cars go.
I'm in my mid thirties, a DINK (double income, no kids) thanks to an awesome wife, and a lover of all the fun cars Toyota made. All in all... I'm probably the demographic Toyota is hoping for here. However, the lack of a manual is a non starter for me. In 18 years of driving, I've owned four cars with automatics, two of which were sedans, two of which were super clean old Toyotas. So, about one in four, I'd guess, were automatics, and never by strict choice. The other problem, for me, at least, is the 800 lb gorilla in the room: BMW reliability.
Allow me to expand on that thought. I have a 1987 Supra powered by a 1jz that I swapped in back in 2009. That engine had something like 60k to 70k miles on it when I bought it, supposedly. You know how JDM engine sellers used to be, everything had 60k on it, but JHot had a stellar ebay feedback rating. Anyway... I put another 25-30k on the engine, a lot of hard, hard miles, driven in every kind of weather imaginable. I had fun with it, every time I drove it. in five years of daily driving, I only needed to add a manual fan switch because the thermo switch didn't kick the fans on soon enough to keep things reasonably cool, and my fans sucked at the time... and I had to replace a coolant hose on the front turbo that I should have replaced when the engine was out before going in the car.
That's it. Five years of daily driving and two minor inconveniences. Took the engine apart to build it into the thing it is today, and the bearings, they literally looked brand new. The machinist that did the machine work was rather impressed at the durability of the internals. I have a feeling that very few, if any, performance BMW engines, can attest to this level of durability and longevity. It's a shame, really, I've seen monster power come out of the old S50/52/54 engines when turbocharged, but for how long, I never really heard any good stories.
As far as the performance of the Mk5 Supra goes, I suspect it will be a 12 second car right off the boat, and that people will shortly find a way to get rid of the gas particulate filter, just like they often do with the dpf on trucks. I see a good future ahead of the car, it's just gonna take some getting used to for most of us. =)
A splitter, lowered over some different wheels with more meat.................I think it's going to look amazing.
It's making me reconsider getting a new Miata this year, and waiting to get one of these instead.
I snapped a couple of pics at the show on Monday, but my stupid effing iPhone somehow got onto that useless and annoying 'Live' mode where it takes like a 1 second mini vid so they don't want to embed.
Glad they're making it. A little over styled with all the fake vents. The door vent and the area of the start of the rear fender are ridiculous. The front bumper has too much going on too. Long term reliability of the B58 probably won't be anything like the old Toyota I6 engines. The weight is okay, a little lighter would be nice but it's a $50k car in 2019. Easy to make more power with a tune at least, and it's across the board, not just a huge boost in low end torque like some of the other modern small turbo engines (+150 tq & +52 hp!!!1). I can't wait to see one in person to get a feel for the scale and proportions.
So will Toyota have the coupe before BMW gets theirs? Besides that, what reason is there to buy the Toyota over the BMW besides styling? And why is this a superior strategy to just building something more powerful and refined on the 86 platform? If I'm going to plunk down for a Toyota, I kinda want a....Toyota.
z31maniac said:A splitter, lowered over some different wheels with more meat.................I think it's going to look amazing.
It's making me reconsider getting a new Miata this year, and waiting to get one of these instead.
That's an interesting cross-shop. I'd expect this to be competing against the hotter Cameros or the Stingray, and the GT86 would be the Miata competitor.
Keith Tanner said:z31maniac said:A splitter, lowered over some different wheels with more meat.................I think it's going to look amazing.
It's making me reconsider getting a new Miata this year, and waiting to get one of these instead.
That's an interesting cross-shop. I'd expect this to be competing against the hotter Cameros or the Stingray, and the GT86 would be the Miata competitor.
It definitely is, the only thing they have in common is being a 2 seater. I know the looks are controversial, but I like it. And it grows on me every time I look at it.
But $30k vs $55k is a big jump. Not sure at that point if I'd go for a used flat-6 Cayman S or what. I don't drive that much, so it seems a bit silly to drop that much coin on a car.
I had the oil changed in the 135 a few weeks ago, 5k miles. Even with multiple trips to Tulsa from OKC, it took 1 year to rack up that many miles. Back of the napkin math shows, when the car was in town, I only put about 3500 miles on it in one year.
It's going to be hard to recapture the magic of the mkiv because it came about due to a confluence of factors that don't exist with the new car. Back in the early 90's, cars making 300+ hp were in rarified territory. A lot of the old car's fanboyism centered around the fact it could make 1000 hp with the cast iron block 2jz w/stock internals. Its status was further elevated by the original Fast and Furious and the general car culture of the time. What's the new Supra got going for it that makes it unique and a standout? This is supposed to be Toyota's halo car, so where's the magic?
I guess I was dreaming that it would come in a little lighter and cheaper. I've been putting off a purchase waiting to see what this would be, and I'm a bit underwhelmed. I'm in the minority here, but being a BMW fanboy, I was more excited that it was a BMW than I would have been if it was a 100% Toyota. I would have wanted the paddle shifting version anyway, so I'm not disappointed in that.
For me though, 55k is way too close to the M2 competition, which is only modestly heavier, makes 80 more hp, has a true DCT, and has all the other M goodies. I want to want it, I really do, but I just don't see the value... (I think it looks great, and bet it's a riot, just not enough for me to buy one)
"You were supposed to be the chosen one!"
Armitage said:It's going to be hard to recapture the magic of the mkiv because it came about due to a confluence of factors that don't exist with the new car. Back in the early 90's, cars making 300+ hp were in rarified territory. A lot of the old car's fanboyism centered around the fact it could make 1000 hp with the cast iron block 2jz w/stock internals. Its status was further elevated by the original Fast and Furious and the general car culture of the time. What's the new Supra got going for it that makes it unique and a standout? This is supposed to be Toyota's halo car, so where's the magic?
The magic is in a car they made last decade, the LFA...
I'm a bit disappointed by the interior. This is one area that there really is no reason I can see, from a business side, the prevented them from doing a completely bespoke interior for the Toyota.
The thing that keeps coming up in my mind, is the crate engine idea. Why can I not go to a Toyota dealership and order a crate 2jz? I can order any number of crate engines from other manufacturers, why not the 2jz? Just seems like a missed opportunity to print cash, if you ask me...
N.A.S. @ N.A.I.A.S. = Not A Supra. Yes I'm being a bit of a pill but I'm old enough to want my generational jumps to have the same/similar DNA like a VQ in a Z. Kinda like the Answer is hailed 'round these parts. beyond that even if I do get into those income levels I'd rather just learn how to build cars myself even if they did look like that hideous Marcos on another one of our threads. 
This car has about as much shared DNA with earlier Supras as the two major generational changes of Miata do.
The Mk IV Supra didn't really become 'infamous' until after it was canceled for being a massive sales flop, and depreciated heavily. As a new car, making a 'true' Mk IV successor was probably not their actual goal, nor should it have been. As good as the Mk IV was from a technical standpoint, the Mk III was much more successful. Thought of another way, the Mk IV could actually be largely blamed for there not being a subsequent Mk V. The biggest problem I see with this one is going to be the 'internet of enthusiasts' attempting to draw a false equivalence back to the Mk IV. Remember, 23 years ago the n/a Supra was nearly $40k, and the Turbo was more than $50k...Which also makes this one a relative bargain.
Today's Toyota can build a tremendously long-lasting, safe, high-quality car like nobody else and can literally do nothing else well (design, innovate, market, dealership, infotainment, you name it). They're #1 because most people don't care about anything except what Toyota is good at.
Why would we expect the most conservative, most penny-pinching, largest car company to somehow come up with an interesting Supra that doesn't hurt their Lexus sales? No. They spent literally nothing on this and clearly care little about it. They pretend to care for the free marketing, ditto with the 2 year rollout period.
They auctioned the first Supra off the assembly line at Barrett-Jackson tonight.
Big tax deduction. Hammered down at $2.1 million, sold to Barrett-Jackson regular John Staluppi.
Half the proceeds will go to the American Heart Association, half to the Bob Woodward Foundation for veterans.
In reply to Driven5 :
Something you're perhaps forgetting about, the exchange rate at the time. The Japanese economy had a bubble that burst around 1991, right before the Mk4 launched. The dollar to yen rate became rather unfavorable, making the Mk4 much more expensive as the years went on. If you look at Japan's offerings of high end GT cars at the time, they were all canceled by 2000, whether it be because the model was no longer made, or just not sold in the US anymore.
This is to say nothing of the dot com bubble we experienced here, which save for perhaps the 350Z and RX8, was a dark time for sports car fans. Fast forward another half decade, the housing bubble popped. This may not sound entirely related to cars, but remember, while the general state of economics affects us all, it affects those who buy new (and therefore matter most to manufacturers) more than it affects folks like us. When money is tight, they're not buying as many cars either.
I agree with your assessment that the Mk5 is a relative bargain though.
I still say that the internet as a whole is missing the point, in that every generation of Supra has been quite different, and have had a variety of qualities. Apart from being a four seat, two door GT with rear drive and an inline six, they're quite unique when compared to each other.
The fact that they used the Who in the Super Bowl ad is showing which demographic they are after: old people.
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