Toyota has officially lost it . . .

secretariata said:

Vigo said:

and it was friggin fantastic for a Camry

But, that is a "qualifier".  It's not a "fantastic" car it's "fantastic for a Camry"... so we lower our expectations and accept a mediocre car because it is better than previous versions of a turd.

I really wonder, though - in what ways is it mediocre? I've never even looked at or sat in a modern Camry, but I owned an 80's one and have driven some 90s ones and they were fantastic cars. Not what I want in a car right now, but still fantastic. If you expect a car to excel in all things you will always be disappointed. Every car has compromises, and just because your priorities may not be met by one that doesn't make it mediocre. If you're looking for a comfortable, reliable, efficient way to get to work or transport your family, a Camry excels far better than say, a Miata. Or an E36 M3. Or, pretty much any car that most of us would say is fantastic.

The Camry suffers from being too good of a "Car".  It just gets the job done.

Most of us on this board want a less missionary position experience.

Trackmouse said:

I’ll never understand the marketing. “Here’s a huge family sedan, we make it go faster than Our sports cars so you won’t feel like a depressed dad that’s been mowed down by his wife’s incessant control issues” 

Given the board's propensity toward Miatas (Miatae?) many of you people must be midgets.  Dwarves?  What term are the PC nazis pushing these days?  Little people?  I digress.

I must take vigorous exception to your calling the Camry "a huge family sedan."  Really?  Huge?  I'm not sure you can even buy a "huge family sedan" these days.  I might call a Crown Vic a huge sedan.  Maybe even the Avalon, but I'm pretty sure it's not huge.  Could you even squeeze 6 people into an Avalon?  Certainly not in a Camry.  Granted the Camry, like all modern cars, is an overweight pig.  But huge?  No.  It's a midsize sedan. 

I'm with you on the baffling nature of marketing however.  But it makes more sense when you understand that business schools have to offer something to all those students who aren't smart enough to be accountants.

Appleseed said:

Well, duh, it's grounded to the ground. 

this is what I came in here for. They jumped the shark some time ago. 

I haven't driven the new Camry, and I hear they are much improved. 

The last few Camry's I drove were 2016-2017 rentals.  They were terrible things to spend time in.  It's not that they do anything badly, it was the complete lack of communication through the steering, the floaty / disconnected feel of the suspension, and the overall novacaine-like experience built into all the major controls.  The car made me uneasy, unhappy, and unsatisfied.   When I get rentals these days, I"m much rather have an Elantra, Fusion, or even a Cruz compared to a Camry or Corolla---- they are penalty boxes to me.  

They only sold 26,000+ Camry's in October 2017 in the US market, so somebody must be buying them.

And along with buying them, buying the marketing to go with it, good bad or otherwise.

Joe Gearin said:

I haven't driven the new Camry, and I hear they are much improved. 

 

The last few Camry's I drove were 2016-2017 rentals.  They were terrible things to spend time in.  It's not that they do anything badly, it was the complete lack of communication through the steering, the floaty / disconnected feel of the suspension, and the overall novacaine-like experience built into all the major controls.  The car made me uneasy, unhappy, and unsatisfied.   When I get rentals these days, I"m much rather have an Elantra, Fusion, or even a Cruz compared to a Camry or Corolla---- they are penalty boxes to me.  

 

 

For a minute there I thought you were talking about my dad's 3 Series.  You could say much the same about it as well.  Since most cars now have electronic power steering, any sense of feel has pretty much vanished.  And for a street car, not many get flogged around corners.  Given those parameters, the last Camry I drove felt very similar to the BMW, and in fact was a bit faster.  For what they were designed to do, Camry's more than accel at their duties.  One of the women I work with bought a new one this time last year.  It now has over 80k miles with no failures and is still on it's OE tires, although they are pretty worn at this point.  Don't know about the rental fleet, but her's drivers fairly well.

Vigo said:

But, that is a "qualifier".  It's not a "fantastic" car it's "fantastic for a Camry"... so we lower our expectations and accept a mediocre car because it is better than previous versions of a turd.

I think you and I have very different impressions of the Camry.  I also really liked the '11-14 models and the only thing that really stopped me from thinking about buying one was buying a same-size-better-everything 340HP Lexus GS450h. 

What is the cost delta between these two?  

1988RedT2 said:

Trackmouse said:

I’ll never understand the marketing. “Here’s a huge family sedan, we make it go faster than Our sports cars so you won’t feel like a depressed dad that’s been mowed down by his wife’s incessant control issues” 

Given the board's propensity toward Miatas (Miatae?) many of you people must be midgets.  Dwarves?  What term are the PC nazis pushing these days?  Little people?  I digress.

I must be the world's tallest midget.  I find that NAs have more interior room than my Volvo does.

Granted, you can't fold down the back seat of an NA and sleep in the trunk, but you can also sit in the driver's seat with a helmet on and not have to have the seat reclined so far that you can't reach the steering wheel.

OK, maybe "turd" was a little strong, but a tarted up Camry isn't going to get me all hot and bothered over a beige refrigerator...I was focused on the motorsports implications of the thread title and initial posts.  It probably is a fantastic car for a certain segment that wants an appliance.  I don't need 4 doors, useful rear seats, or room for 2 golf bags.

What is the cost delta between these two?  

At the time i bought, i paid about the same for the 09 Lexus hybrid as i would have for an ~11-14 Camry hybrid. Granted, i traded 15 mpg for 150hp, but i don't regret it a bit.  

Forgot to mention in my last post, but i would totally jump at the chance to get a 92-96 Camry in the right drivetrain/color/trim combo. I really like those as well.