Toyota Suspends Sales!

Datsun1500 wrote: The issue is the pedal itself gets stuck, DBW or with a cable makes no difference. If the pedal arm is stuck it will still hold the throttle cable at WOT

Which addresses the earlier point made about unnecessary devices like z pattern manumatics, pushbutton starts, and too much HP/driver ability

Dis-economies of scale......................

Its a tough lesson to learn.

A little more fuel for the fire.
Over at Consumer Reports (which one person refers to as "The Holy Church of Toyota") recommendations for Toyota affected models have been temporarily suspended from being Consumer Reports "recommended."
Some interesting (and often ignorant) banter after their article.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/01/consumer-reports-suspends-recommendations-for-recalled-toyotas-accelerator-recall.html

As I was reading those comments, a little bit of my soul died

So, if anyone sees one I'm looking for a V6 Camry or Avalon for around $5k........

(un)fortunately, the solara isnt affected...but sheeple may not care. Im hoping a 03 with a manual trans pops up on CL right around when my infiniti takes a dump.

ignorant wrote:

alfadriver wrote: What you are implying in many of your posts is that US made Toyotas are inferior to the Japanese made Toyotas.

I'm going to argue cutural differences and work ethics have more to play there than anything. Long story short, the issue I talked about above was where I to fix an issue I needed both suppliers to run to a different side of a surface finish spec to alleviate a slipping problem. I got the Us supplier on the phone and they said OK. I sent them an email and they did it. They were/are a great organization. The japanese supplier, when presented with the same info, believed that what they had been doing was wrong from the beginning. They were embarrassed at dissapointing their customer. The next week I had the Director of Manufacturing, the Shop foreman, the machining manager, the director of quality and the metrology lab manager on my doorstep( account manager as well). They brought their surfometer that they recently had calibrated at mitutoyo's HQ. They also brought certifications for all their QC equipment. I've never had more people over the age of 50 appologizing to a young guy before in my life. It was incredible. They were damn serious about quality.

Good story.

But it appears that the values of that supplier are not the same at Toyota. If it had, then this list of long term issues would have never progressed past a few items. http://www.dallasfortworthinjurylawyer.com/2009/12/toyota_did_not_disclose_potent.html

Basically, if you were disgusted with how Ford handled the Firestone debacle, you should be the same, or more horrified (since the problem has been going on longer, on more models) with this situation and Toyota.

And to imply that your story means that Ford takes quality less seriously than Toyota, again, I belive that it does not. It points out values of two suppliers. One, who may appear to fall on the sword for your, but in fact, may be just angling for appearences to get more money out of you (that's always a possibility).

Eric

Basically, if you were disgusted with how Ford handled the Firestone debacle, you should be the same, or more horrified (since the problem has been going on longer, on more models) with this situation and Toyota.

I'm not so sure that's the case. Ford knew they had a problem with Explorer tire failure / rollovers and analyzed the data until they had enough to irrefutably pin it on Firestone.

By the time Ford went public, 115 people were dead.

I wonder what the death count is for the Toyota recall? I heard of four in a single accident. I also wonder why CTS has been silent on this?

That would appear to be business in its finest but morally bankrupt

Tyler H wrote: Ford knew they had a problem with Explorer tire failure / rollovers and massaged the data, until they had enough to pin it on Firestone, with a healthy dose of "persuasion" to convince Firestone not to fight them.

Fixed...

In reply to DILYSI Dave:

Trying to maintain some semblance of objectivity.

Wozniak weighs in with an opinion that I share on this issue: Toyota has a software glitch in it's DBW / CC.

Toyota software glitch?

I've seen it implied in several posts that Japan's culture and strong work ethic would keep Toyota from letting their quality issues go on so long without fixing them or acknowledging them. I just want to remind those posters about Mitsubishi hiding more than 64000 customer complaints about 30 defects for over 10 years.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-11473017-mitsubishi-hid-defects-in-cars.do

Now, to return this post to Toyota, my cousin came to visit today and had a brand new Corolla. I asked her if she replaced her 1999 Corolla and she told me it was at the dealer waiting for parts to have the accelerator pedal replaced. She and her husband have been having issues with the accelerator pedal occasionally sticking, and then returning to idle with an audible clunk/pop. She had asked the dealer about it several times but couldn't demonstrate the problem so they kept blowing her off saying there's no problem. She brought it in again this week and finally got them to acknowledge a problem after leaving it their overnight. They gave her a new Corolla as a loaner while her car is fixed. I wonder if this recall will get expanded even more.

On edit: It seems like she's not the only one with this issue, but it doesn't seem like it's very common: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070225060402AA3Bmej

Bob

Pretty sure most 11 year old Corollas have a throttle cable and a bajillion miles. A new $20 cable will probably solve that.

My 91 MR2's throttle sticks occasionally at about 1200 RPM at Idle. Just jab the pedal and it settles in around 800rpm. There are a few frayed strands visible in the cable, between the throttle body and the sheath at 225k miles.

My Celica sticks at idle. I really have to stab it sometimes to get it to react.

But that's a product of 19 years and a bajillion and two miles.

I have a 1987 Corolla, with 185+k miles and NOTHING is wrong with it!

I'm only guessing, but it seems many owners are lazy assed bastards. Spend a few dollars and MAINTAIN your car.....

This isn't going to help- Transportation Secretary tells onwers to stop driving.... http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/02/toyota-recall-transportation-secretary-ray-lahood-advises-owners-not-to-drive-their-cars/1

Think this will help?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100203/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_toyota_prius

Tyler H wrote:

Basically, if you were disgusted with how Ford handled the Firestone debacle, you should be the same, or more horrified (since the problem has been going on longer, on more models) with this situation and Toyota.

I'm not so sure that's the case. Ford knew they had a problem with Explorer tire failure / rollovers and analyzed the data until they had enough to irrefutably pin it on Firestone. By the time Ford went public, 115 people were dead. I wonder what the death count is for the Toyota recall? I heard of four in a single accident. I also wonder why CTS has been silent on this?

To set the record a little more straight- you may want to check http://money.cnn.com/2000/08/30/news/firestone_chronology/

First of all, it was 21 fatlities and 193 complaints. Not 115 fatalities. Other sources do increase that after the reaction by Bridgestone/Firestone and Ford.

Second, if you read the timeline, according to CNN, what was know in '98- Firestone wasn't making the part to even their own specification. Also, the recall was mainly done by Bridgestone/Firestone, since it was their part. Ford did pay for a lot of it, as they replaced the questionable tires with something else.

Not to say that any of the parties were perfect, but lets not blow it out of porportion.

While other articles point out increased claims later, it's pretty clear that once the reaction started, it was quick. The overall timeline was shorter, the number of vehicles affected was far, far smaller (by about an order of magnitude- 400,000 to +4M). Toyota has been dragging this one out since it's first complaint in a Lexus in 1999.

alfadriver wrote: This isn't going to help- Transportation Secretary tells onwers to stop driving.... http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/02/toyota-recall-transportation-secretary-ray-lahood-advises-owners-not-to-drive-their-cars/1

Actually he said only stop driving them if you see a problem.

carguy123 wrote:

alfadriver wrote: This isn't going to help- Transportation Secretary tells onwers to stop driving.... http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/02/toyota-recall-transportation-secretary-ray-lahood-advises-owners-not-to-drive-their-cars/1

Actually he said only stop driving them if you see a problem.

The Trans Sec is backing-off his original statement, claiming he "mis-spoke".

Sounds like he realized he is at least partly responsible for adding to a consumer panic frenzy. But the unanswered questions remains - "are the cars safe, or not?"

They are looking into the Prius now for a different issue: http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/04/news/companies/prius_nhtsa/index.htm?hpt=T1

Now Toyota admits to an ABS problem on the Prius.

apparently the NHTSA is also considering investigating any vehicles that have had unintentional acceleration issues.

http://www.autospies.com/news/Former-Toyota-Lawyer-Fesses-about-300-concealed-lawsuits-51700/ said: Former Toyota Lawyer Fesses about 300 concealed lawsuits. As Toyota scrambles to contain its sudden acceleration crisis, another potential blow to the automaker's credibility is lurking in the form of a former staff attorney who is accusing the Japanese automaker of concealing safety issues from the public. Dimitrios Biller of Pacific Palisades, Calif., who defended Toyota in product-liability cases until 2008, alleges in a federal lawsuit that the automaker has a long history of hiding and destroying evidence as part of a strategy orchestrated from company headquarters in Toyota City, Japan. Toyota and its ex-employee have been involved in a tangle of litigation in state and federal courts for months, centered on 6,000 internal documents obtained by Biller. He said the documents show a pattern of illegal behavior in which Toyota fraudulently withheld evidence in product-liability claims. At Toyota's urging, the documents have been kept confidential by court order since last summer. But now a California arbitrator is considering whether they can be made public. Attorneys for Toyota and Biller made their final filings in the matter last week, and a decision is expected soon.

iceracer wrote: Now Toyota admits to an ABS problem on the Prius.

The problems seem to be nearly like the well documented "ice mode" that happens to wrx's during fast corners with bumps in them.......

not right. but seems very similar.