Toyota teases “all-new GR sports car” ahead of March 31 reveal

fidelity101 said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:

A roughly 260HP AWD hot-hatch? What's not to love? If it lists at $32K they will see a ton of them. At $40K, they will struggle. 

Well, the Mazda 3 can now be had as an AWD turbo hatch, a lot closer to $30k than $40k.

Forum reaction was "meh".

no manual option no care really.... that car/brand is going through identity crisis as it tries to mimic volvo rebirth but from a Japanese perspective. 

It is an "identity crisis" that is working out pretty well for sales...

In reply to STM317 :

That motor in a stripper fwd Yaris with a stick would be a hoot. Although I just looked at Toyota's website. The Corolla is the smallish vehicle. And straight to crossovers. Hmph.

In reply to fatallightning :

Yep, a while ago they killed the real Yaris and sold a Mazda2 with a Toyota badge for a couple years, then killed that too because it just didn't sell. Subcompacts just do terribly here for whatever reason.

fatallightning said:

sevenracer said:

I'm just hoping it's not a re-badged WRX or BMW 2 series gran coupe (or even X2). As that's how they do Gazoo lately.

 

Ha - And before you get your pitchforks out (or warm up your Fresh Prince slap)- I'm joking. It's more a commentary on how difficult the business case is these days for sports cars. If it is, as expected, a turbo, manual AWD Corolla hatch that'll be pretty rad.

I do find it a bit laughable that Toyota was crying poverty when it came time to produce the Supra and FRS/BRZ twins, claiming that they couldn't afford it unless it was a collaborative manufacturer effort, but suddenly release a car in the Yaris GR that is basically bespoke tip to tail with no qualms. I almost wonder if the Corolla GR is more of a ploy to paydown the investment into that turbo 3 and AWD systems. 

thank their WRC efforts for this. 

fatallightning said:

sevenracer said:

I'm just hoping it's not a re-badged WRX or BMW 2 series gran coupe (or even X2). As that's how they do Gazoo lately.

 

Ha - And before you get your pitchforks out (or warm up your Fresh Prince slap)- I'm joking. It's more a commentary on how difficult the business case is these days for sports cars. If it is, as expected, a turbo, manual AWD Corolla hatch that'll be pretty rad.

I do find it a bit laughable that Toyota was crying poverty when it came time to produce the Supra and FRS/BRZ twins, claiming that they couldn't afford it unless it was a collaborative manufacturer effort, but suddenly release a car in the Yaris GR that is basically bespoke tip to tail with no qualms. I almost wonder if the Corolla GR is more of a ploy to paydown the investment into that turbo 3 and AWD systems. 

As far as the Supra, I think that was more of a business decision vs "crying poverty."

They came out and said if they had developed the chassis and new drivetrain, the new Supra would have been $100k+ instead of $55k. At that point, my guess is that the Supra wouldn't sell enough to justify the investment. 

If I had $100k to spend on a car, I'm thinking loaded Cayman S with an extra $15-20k to spare over a Supra. Of course that's just my opinion. 

pointofdeparture said:

In reply to fatallightning :

Yep, a while ago they killed the real Yaris and sold a Mazda2 with a Toyota badge for a couple years, then killed that too because it just didn't sell. Subcompacts just do terribly here for whatever reason.

They don't sell them here with the economy options.

Friend A bought a new Fiesta sedan (1.6/manual), friend B bought a new Focus sedan (2.0/6sp), both spent about $13-14k, both got the same highway economy, one had a lot more interior room and trunk space.

As much as I like small cars, even then the big Focus made more economic sense.

fatallightning said:

In reply to STM317 :

That motor in a stripper fwd Yaris with a stick would be a hoot. Although I just looked at Toyota's website. The Corolla is the smallish vehicle. And straight to crossovers. Hmph.

270hp, manual trans and AWD with actual difs would make a lot of those blah crossovers much more interesting though when things like Foresters get 180hp and a CVT.

In reply to STM317 :

Upthread it came out that is will have Torsens, not real diffs.

I greatly dislike Torsens, they are even more unpredictable than a regular bevel diff.  Much prefer clutch pack diffs.

https://staging.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/grcorolla/

*toyota killed this link, guess it was a leak, whoops*

Cliff notes. 300HP, 6 speed only, awd with torsen diffs, carbon roof on the launch edition. No pricing yet. No curb weight noted. 

The current Corolla hatch is already over 3,000 lbs, so I expect this one to be closer to 3,200. 

I like it. 

Specs are good and the already funky styling of the Corolla does well with the GR treatment.

Man, is it ever good to see Toyota embracing performance again.

so they are keeping the 3 cyl and upping the power over the yaris. I am excited but no pricing yet... and likely I'll be buying one second hand after I pay off the truck. 

the real question remains for it to be "rally ready" is if I can fit 15s" on it ..

Even with 300HP, assuming 3250 lbs, that's 0.092 HP/lb.  The yaris GR is 268 hp, 2822lb, 0.095 HP/lb.  It would have to be ~3160lb to have the same power to weight as the yaris GR. So, it will probably be a bit slower than the yaris GR (0to60 5.3s), but if the driving dynamics are similar this will be a real winner.

Kevin if the brakes dont fit 15's, should be easy enough to swap base corolla brakes onto it!  Doesnt look hopeful, yaris GR needs a different rotor/bracket to fit 15's. https://www.gr-yaris.co.uk/forum/threads/smallest-rims-to-fit-stock-brakes.3604/

well if there is a solution out there for it thats a good start but yeah possibly base model corolla parts. 

Wow, this thing looks bonkers. I'm curious to see how it looks in un-photoshopped pictures, and to see what colors they give us.

Nice! Nobody's going to mistake a car with rear box flares, hood + fender vents and a spoiler for a taxi. Are you taking notes, Honda?

In reply to GameboyRMH :

In the CTR thread: too many spats and flares and wings and gills and whatnot.

Can't please everyone 

I know pricing will be announced tonight, but I'm guessing under $40k.  The basic Yaris in Australia is $27k.  The Yaris GR in Australia is $50k, so 185% of a base Yaris.  If the same numbers apply to the Corolla, you're looking at $37k.   Probably more for the launch edition.

A "bit" high to me, if it was $30k, I would be on my short list for my next car.  But I'm an old man and "car prices are too damn high!" 

-Rob

Car and Driver lists a 2022 Corolla Hatch base weight of over 3100lbs.  This GR will not weigh 3200. I'm guessing closer to 3500 than 3400.

https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/corolla/specs

so its above 3000lbs, in street trim. thats fine.

how much interior can we gut and misc stuff we don't need to drop the weight down... before the cage goes in. I wanna see these on American Rallies. 

In reply to fidelity101 :

Probably not a lot.  Most of the weight in modern cars is in the shell.  The seats are foam, the dash is a lot of plastic with an 18 gauge or thinner tube going from one side to the other, etc.

A new Corolla is also a shockingly large vehicle.  It ain't a subcompact like in the 80s and 90s.

I have a sneaking suspicion the weight penalty will not be THAT bad given that a base Corolla has a physically larger engine.  Not sure how that translates to weight, but it should offset at least the weight of the turbo and intercooler if not some of the AWD bits.

What is the weight difference between a FoST and FoRS, out of curiosity?  How about between a FoST and a 1.0l Focus hatch?

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

good point. I'm thinking side door glass becomes plastic, no interior, (if its power seats at all there is good mass there) airbags aren't light, gut the rear doors - add a cage. 

quick google-fu

Fiesta ST 4 door: 2720lbs

Focus ST: 3233lbs

Focus RS: 3434lbs

2021 STI: 3450lbs

golf R: 3481lbs

EVOX: 3527lbs

focus 3cyl: 2797lbs

2020 corolla SE manual trans: 3060lbs

no car is small or light anymore by our standards, and even rightly so we think a car from 2001 isn't that old but apparently thats been 20 years from now!

more randos to ballpark for you:

1997 BMW 5 series = 3,748 lbs and the 7 series is just over 4000 for example

2020 ford fusion AWD = 3816lbs

2009 rx8 hard top = 2950lbs

2020 civic type R = 3117lbs

My educated ass-pull of a guess says it will weigh 3200-3300lb.

but really? Airbags weigh a lot?  I didn't bother to weigh the bags from the R53 that I de-interiored earlier this year, but if the side and front bags combined weighed over 20lb then I would be shocked.  Airbags are literally a wad of thin fabric and either a small explosive charge about the size of a small pistol round, or a gas canister about the size of a disposable CO2 bomb like you would inflate a bike tire with.  

I'm pretty excited.  The wife's Focus RS is 5 years old with 75,000 miles and I worry that it's a ticking time bomb, though it's thus far been more reliable than the WRX it replaced.  She loves it and would be happy to keep it forever, but I can't get excited about the possibility of having to work on it when the extended warranty expires in October.  There's basically no other choice in the AWD + Manual Transmission + Fast Hatchback, except the VW, and there's no way I buy a new VW even if it weren't the touch screen disaster inside.