irish44j wrote:Darksider203 wrote: The miata is less expensive, with more parts available.say what? e30s can be found all day in good running and ok cosmetic condition for $2k or so, and less if you get an ETA or M10 car. I never see decent Miatas anywhere near that, at least not in this area.
The OP is on my side of the country, where non-eta non-M10 e30s in decent shape are pretty expensive...
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I was at VIR last weekend. Roomed with two fellows that prefer BMW over Miata, and they were lamenting the price of a decent E30 325i. Even the 318's seem to be getting expensive around these parts, as compared to a few years ago. Same with NA Miatas. Yes, I search, and occasionally find them cheap, but those rarely have solid sills (advertised as "cosmetic rust only). And usually have bad paint. I would prefer to pay an extra $1000 to avoid the rust I have been seeing as of late, and this isn't even the rust belt! I can actually find an NB1 for less than a 1.8 NA more often than not, and the guys foresee a time soon that Spec 3 will eclipse Spec E30, for lack of cars, much like Spec Mista took the reins from Spec RX7.
dooodstevenn wrote: I'll make note of it. At this point i'm leaning e30. Also the fact that an e30 will stand out among the crowd is a real plus to me. I like to be differentBut in the end, I think i'll end up getting whatever I can find in good shape and for a good price, whatever it may be.
In my not so humble opinion, be sure to drive as many examples of both as you can.
I bought a very nice E30 three years ago (from this forum) for exactly the same reasons you are and have been trying like hell to fall in love with the car ever since. There has pretty much been nothing about the ownership experience I've enjoyed and it spends the majority of its time lanquishing under a cover in my driveway. I absolutely fear driving the car since every time I do something breaks. Which leads to stationary related failures... The happiest moment of E30 ownership for me will be when I sign that title away and see those tail lights for the last time...
Whatever you do, don't own or spend a lot of time with a R53 MCS and a '97 M3 and then buy an E30... I seriously don't understand why everyone loves the E30 so much other than its classic BMW looks. Of course, many on this forum disagree, so this is just my opinion. Maybe it's familiarity, but I find the R53 MINI a LOT easier to work on than the E30. My E36 experience is now ~10 years old, but even that car I don't recall being as annoying as the E30.
A year or so before I bought the E30, I drove a friend's NB Miata and instantly fell in love. I should have bought a Miata (or another MCS).
As an E30 lover and BMW fan boy in general... if we are talking:
Do not buy either car. Get something faster and grow into it.
Here too, it's HARD to find a cheap clean 325i E30. E36's are cheaper, more plentiful, and better performing...though they lack the character of the E30 that I like. YMMV.
I love Miata's, but with a small family I like the flexibility that having a real back seat adds.
IanF (on GRM) may have a solid E30 for sale in PA in the near future. Just saying.
EDIT: just saw that he weighed in on here.
I can't find a clean cheap E30 to save my life. SWMBO wants one VERY badly and i'd love to give her one. Seems all i can find is cheap ragged out projects (that i don't want to deal with) or hideously expensive clean ones.
Honestly, NA Miatas seem to be about the same way. I'd vote NB Miata just for that reason. They're easier to find reasonably priced now.
Yup - my wife too, really wants another one. We've had a couple, but at a time when I couldn't really afford to "freshen it up" with a suspension rebuild and modern steering rack.
That said, I really ought to follow Ian's advice and get some seat time in a Cooper S.
irish44j wrote:Darksider203 wrote: The miata is less expensive, with more parts available.say what? e30s can be found all day in good running and ok cosmetic condition for $2k or so, and less if you get an ETA or M10 car. I never see decent Miatas anywhere near that, at least not in this area. Parts available? Perhaps, but that's mostly because the Miata has more aftermarket than most any car out there. As aftermarket and OEM/OEM-replacement parts go, it is DAMN easy to find e30 stuff, and it is DAMN inexpensive for the most part. Plus it's simple to find e30s in pick-n-pull yards for replacement parts, engines, transmissions, etc. Miatas, not so much. No question the Miata is a superior track car in terms of performance, but the e30 is simple to work on, parts are cheap, and the cars are cheap.
Links?
Or does "OK Cosmetic condition" mean rusty battery tray, rust developing in the sunroof, etc?
I what "most" would consider a "nice" car, for an E30 you'll need to double that figure.
Darksider203 wrote:irish44j wrote:I wou,d have to disagree, you cant find an e30 around where i live that is in decent condition for 2k thats just crazy around here. There are way more decent miatas around than e30. Not everyone wants to go to the junk yard and rip apart an e30 for oem parts that are 20-25 years old..at least i wouldnt.. 1) A jdm spec b6ze or bp can be bought full swap for under 1000 and thats everything included.. I have never worked on an e30 so i cant say but the word on the street is that they are a real b**** sometimes. They are older cars and will need alot of restoration unless they are in mint condition and your not getting a mint e30 for around 2k not 3k or even 4k. 2) He says he wants to make the car nice, meaning he wants to get rid of those ugly e30 bumpers and replace it with a nice shiny reiger e30 m3 bodykit. That isnt cheap one bit and certainly wont be very nice after thrashing it at the track. Miatas only need a lip, and rims to look good imo.. Very cheap, very replaceable.. They miata is not a superior track car in full out racing form, they are both equally as potent were the only difference would be the setup, parts and driver..but there is no real advantage that can be seen imo. But a miata is a cheaper way to do everything he wants to do. I highly respect the e30 for its heritage and looks and im not bashing it because i own a miata. If he was building an all out track beast i wouldnt be able to choose. But for what he wants my vote goes to a miata, especially nb.Darksider203 wrote: The miata is less expensive, with more parts available.say what? e30s can be found all day in good running and ok cosmetic condition for $2k or so, and less if you get an ETA or M10 car. I never see decent Miatas anywhere near that, at least not in this area. Parts available? Perhaps, but that's mostly because the Miata has more aftermarket than most any car out there. As aftermarket and OEM/OEM-replacement parts go, it is DAMN easy to find e30 stuff, and it is DAMN inexpensive for the most part. Plus it's simple to find e30s in pick-n-pull yards for replacement parts, engines, transmissions, etc. Miatas, not so much. No question the Miata is a superior track car in terms of performance, but the e30 is simple to work on, parts are cheap, and the cars are cheap.
1)....... why, though?
2) That's rather.... a huge exaggeration and i can pretty much guarantee that nobody on this board would even think about spending that kind of money just to make a track car look good. What would make more sense in this context would be to maybe "tuck" the bumpers ($Free.99) or convert to late IS fascia. ($cheap.99)
BoxheadTim wrote: Forgot to ask - have you driven both? The "feel" is very different between the two of them. I personally - as someone who owns a 1.8 Miata and an E30, albeit a 325ix - prefer the way the Miata feels when driven hard, even though the BMW is a much more practical car.
that is a really good point.
I have a supercharged 1.6l NA miata, and a good friend let me drive his e36 M3 (close enough) at an autocross for a season (before I got miata) and those 2 are VERY different cars. but all in all, I actually fit better in the miata, and like the "feel" of it too.
SCARRMRCC wrote:BoxheadTim wrote: Forgot to ask - have you driven both? The "feel" is very different between the two of them. I personally - as someone who owns a 1.8 Miata and an E30, albeit a 325ix - prefer the way the Miata feels when driven hard, even though the BMW is a much more practical car.that is a really good point. I have a supercharged 1.6l NA miata, and a good friend let me drive his e36 M3 (close enough) at an autocross for a season (before I got miata) and those 2 are VERY different cars. but all in all, I actually fit better in the miata, and like the "feel" of it too.
How does someone fit better in a Miata than an E36?
And swapping in any E36 engine into the E30 is also painfully easy and dramatically increases performance.
No one does M3 Body kits, well maybe 0.001%. The big bumpers aren't on the later model cars. And early model cars can have plastic bumpers for a bit of work.
z31maniac wrote: And swapping in any E36 engine into the E30 is also painfully easy and dramatically increases performance. No one does M3 Body kits, well maybe 0.001%. The big bumpers aren't on the later model cars. And early model cars can have plastic bumpers for a bit of work.
I meant ugly bumpers lol. Go type "e30" into google images and see what pops up..
Preface: I've never driven either car and haven't run a track day in several years $.02: Tracks are sometimes far away, do you fit comefortably in the car? (think 10PM Sunday night on the way home after driving the track in the sun all day and still 100 miles from home) Who you running with? Don't some groups still exclude rag-tops (BMWCCA?)? Just a thought.
Darksider203 wrote:Swank Force One wrote:1: to make a point that the miata powerplant can easily be upgraded or replaced...just kind of throwing it out there. 2:Thats no exaggeration, i can pretty much guarentee the guy is typing in "slammed e30" in google and falling in love with the looks. All those cars have m3 body kits..what young guy who is into cars and wants a nice one..buys and non m3 e30 and is happy with those ugly bumpers on it. I certainly dont know any.. His post states that he wants a car he can make nice, and bring it to the track..i can pretty much 100 percent say he would want a m3 body kit on the e30 for the "good looks" and they are not cheap A body kit is crucial in making the e30 look goodDarksider203 wrote:1)....... why, though? 2) That's rather.... a huge exaggeration and i can pretty much guarantee that nobody on this board would even think about spending that kind of money just to make a track car look good. What would make more sense in this context would be to maybe "tuck" the bumpers ($Free.99) or convert to late IS fascia. ($cheap.99)irish44j wrote:I wou,d have to disagree, you cant find an e30 around where i live that is in decent condition for 2k thats just crazy around here. There are way more decent miatas around than e30. Not everyone wants to go to the junk yard and rip apart an e30 for oem parts that are 20-25 years old..at least i wouldnt.. 1) A jdm spec b6ze or bp can be bought full swap for under 1000 and thats everything included.. I have never worked on an e30 so i cant say but the word on the street is that they are a real b**** sometimes. They are older cars and will need alot of restoration unless they are in mint condition and your not getting a mint e30 for around 2k not 3k or even 4k. 2) He says he wants to make the car nice, meaning he wants to get rid of those ugly e30 bumpers and replace it with a nice shiny reiger e30 m3 bodykit. That isnt cheap one bit and certainly wont be very nice after thrashing it at the track. Miatas only need a lip, and rims to look good imo.. Very cheap, very replaceable.. They miata is not a superior track car in full out racing form, they are both equally as potent were the only difference would be the setup, parts and driver..but there is no real advantage that can be seen imo. But a miata is a cheaper way to do everything he wants to do. I highly respect the e30 for its heritage and looks and im not bashing it because i own a miata. If he was building an all out track beast i wouldnt be able to choose. But for what he wants my vote goes to a miata, especially nb.Darksider203 wrote: The miata is less expensive, with more parts available.say what? e30s can be found all day in good running and ok cosmetic condition for $2k or so, and less if you get an ETA or M10 car. I never see decent Miatas anywhere near that, at least not in this area. Parts available? Perhaps, but that's mostly because the Miata has more aftermarket than most any car out there. As aftermarket and OEM/OEM-replacement parts go, it is DAMN easy to find e30 stuff, and it is DAMN inexpensive for the most part. Plus it's simple to find e30s in pick-n-pull yards for replacement parts, engines, transmissions, etc. Miatas, not so much. No question the Miata is a superior track car in terms of performance, but the e30 is simple to work on, parts are cheap, and the cars are cheap.
But why JDM? There's no real advantage to it, and it's not really an "upgrade."
2) You're wrong. This isn't ClubRoadster you're on. And no really... there's not many E30s rolling around with M3 body kits, because people just don't do that. All non-M E30s are not equipped with ugly bumpers.
I don't even know why we're talking about body kits. This is Grassroots Motorsports, not "Pimp My Ride."
Darksider203 wrote: What?? Almost everyone who wants a nice e30 outs body kits on them...
Even if they did, cost wouldn't be much of a consideration to sway one against the other considering the hideously expensive NoPro-kitted Miata you have as an avatar. 
I can admit when im wrong but i know any real e30 enthusiast that wants a good looking e30 replaces the body kit and the rims
Darksider203 wrote: I can admit when im wrong but i know any real e30 enthusiast that wants a good looking e30 replaces the body kit and the rims
I'd suggest you start admitting you're wrong....
Right about now.
Good news, though! There's a large amount of E30 enthusiasts on this very board. You can make a thread and let them know that they aren't real enthusiasts because they aren't seeking out a "body kit" that replaces the stock "body kit."
Swank Force One wrote:Darksider203 wrote: What?? Almost everyone who wants a nice e30 outs body kits on them...Even if they did, cost wouldn't be much of a consideration to sway one against the other considering the hideously expensive NoPro-kitted Miata you have as an avatar.
Yea its redicolous aint it? You would have to be on drugs to buy the nopro kit, i just thought it looked cool. Autokonexion has a full gt widebodykit for 1500 that i would buy though.
A miata needs a lip, lowered, rims and a set of 250 dollar fender flares to look agressive and good imo all easily replaceable when beatin up
Darksider203 wrote:Swank Force One wrote:Yea its redicolous aint it? You would have to be on drugs to buy the nopro kit, i just thought it looked cool. Autokonexion has a full gt widebodykit for 1500 that i would buy though. A miata needs a lip, lowered, rims and a set of 250 dollar fender flares to look agressive and good imo all easily replaceable when beatin upDarksider203 wrote: What?? Almost everyone who wants a nice e30 outs body kits on them...Even if they did, cost wouldn't be much of a consideration to sway one against the other considering the hideously expensive NoPro-kitted Miata you have as an avatar.
I've considered the NoPro kit.
Anyways, i don't know how this thread decomposed into a silly thread about form when the original question was mostly about function. Either car can easily look good. The end.
Now.... which makes a better track car?
dooodstevenn wrote: Also worried about ruining the car if i go for a nice build rather than a straight track car. What do you guys think?
It certainly would sway someone to chose one against the other
I could see where not going to agree, its ok though no hard feelings here. And im sorry for that comment about the nopro kit and drugs if i offended you
Darksider203 wrote: I can admit when im wrong but i know any real e30 enthusiast that wants a good looking e30 replaces the body kit and the rims
I also admit i worded this the wrong way, but i would still say a "majority" imo
Anyways! Your right they both can look good. Pick the car you truly want and work with it :)
I've had six BMWs, two Miatas, and driven many more examples of each. I've had three E30s, an E36 M3, a NA Miata and a NB Miata. Without a doubt the BMWs make for more practical street cars... but that's another thread.
I prefer any Miata over nearly any BMW for autocross - it's a lighter, less compromised platform for sliding through the cones.
I prefer a E30 or E36 for occasional HPDE, if for no other reason than the built-in tin top makes it a piece of cake to get legal for open lapping.
For a track rat that I might someday take racing, I'd lean heavily toward the Miata -> Spec Miata path for the low operating costs and competitive fields. That said, if you live in an active NASA region, than SpecE30 or German Touring would be a close runner-up for a low-buck E30/E36 build.
Keep in mind that any Miata, E30 or E36 will be one of the slower cars at any given track day unless you step up to an E36 M3. The buy-in and maintenance on a M3 is going to be higher, but of all the options, it's the car most suited to hammering laps out at the big tracks.
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