Transverse LSx

What options exist for mid-engine LS Motors?

IIRC there was a FWD one in the Impala SS which came with an automatic.

Does it also bolt to the Fiero transmission? Does it hold the power?

Any other options to know about?

It's called the LS4, and it's an all-aluminum 5.3L. It came in the Bonneville GXP, the Impala SS, and the Buick Somethingorother Super. The Monte Carlo SS may have gotten it, too. Maybe even the last Grand Prix?

Anyways, it has it's own auto trans that can barely hold it (GM had to de-tune the snot out of it). I don't know of anything else that it will bolt up to.

(You say the engine-less Ferrari 308 Coupe on BaT didn't you? Because I thought the exact same thing!)

I did not, but I'm looking now...

Yup, it made it's way into the GXP Grand Prix, too. I've driven one and it was fun.

Looks like the F40 6 speed manual has been adapted.

IIRC the Grand Prix that got this motor was geared to the moon, like 1st was good until 74mph and in theory was geared to do about 275 mph. This was to kill torque steer; lack of mechanical advantage reduced torque to the tires.

The Impala SS, meanwhile, got much more normal gearing. And was apparently horrible about scrambling towards the nearest ditch. Another situation where more did not mean better. In the W-body I would rather have the 3800 or 3800SC.

Would be a fantastic engine for, say, a Muira replica.

pres589 wrote: Another situation where more did not mean better. In the W-body I would rather have the 3800 or 3800SC.

Those are hardly the best choice for a W-body. The 2 I 've owned had the LX5 (Shortstar) and the L82 (3100). I definitely like the LX5 over all the other stock choices. Though the L82 was fine other than the intake gasket.

From what I recall, the Chevy F40 transmission from the Cobalt SS was a manual 6-speed and apparently bolts right up to the LSx. Fiero guys are using this transmission a lot for just this kinda swap. Do some digging and see what you can come up with. I remember the name of the transmission because it's also the name of my all time favorite car.

I had heard that the SS trans was kinda short in the holding power dept... I know a lot of the cobalt guys local to me get stumped at about 350whp.... any credence to that, or is it as I suspect and the local idiots are dumb?

In reply to HStockSolo:

In my narrow range of experience and discussion of these cars (because who really talks up these things?), I've not heard of someone favoring the 3100 over the 3800. They're not bad but I don't see any reason to pick the 3100 over the 3.8. The LX5 seemed interesting but I thought that it wasn't the most reliable (starter is in the "lifter valley", right?) and with no manual trans a revy V6 loses some appeal compared to the torque-happy 3800.

I personally wouldn't bother with the blower on these cars but they do make for a decent sleeper.

HStockSolo wrote:

pres589 wrote: Another situation where more did not mean better. In the W-body I would rather have the 3800 or 3800SC.

Those are hardly the best choice for a W-body. The 2 I 've owned had the LX5 (Shortstar) and the L82 (3100). I definitely like the LX5 over all the other stock choices. Though the L82 was fine other than the intake gasket.

Say what? The 3100 is a giant turd of an engine, and the Shortstar was a mechanic's nightmare. The 3800 is virtually identical to the vaunted Grand National motors and can be either a reliable workhorse (we've had no issues with our 50+ miles on a used 3800 N/A) or an absolute powerhouse (several ways to go 11's on the stock long-block!). Without the 3800, the W-Body is just another vanilla FWD sedan...

Javelin wrote: Say what? The 3100 is a giant turd of an engine, and the Shortstar was a mechanic's nightmare.

I don't exactly like V6s in general for working on. I'll see how my head swap goes on my 1MZ-FE. I never had to do anything engine related on my Intrigue, so I wouldn't know. The 3100 and 3800 are both known for intake gasket problems. The former is smaller, lighter, and smoother. I'd pick it for all of those reasons.

My 3800 experience is mostly with my parents three generations of Bonnevilles. I once wanted a S/C SSEi.

The 3100 is barely smaller, barely lighter, and most definitely not smoother. I've driven them, and they are thrashy, underpowered little gas-guzzlers.

The intake gasket problems is directly related to the Dex-Cool I coolant and idiot owners not actually servicing their coolant. We did the LIM gaskets on ours and switched out to Dex Cool II when the time came.

The 3800 is extremely easy to work on, and the only FWD V6 I've ever been able to do the back plugs on without trying to kill somebody afterwords.

Seconding the "thrashy" statement, and the mileage did not make it worth having one over a 3800. And just like no one ever said that the Camry needed a V8, it was a waste of engineering time to slide the 5.3 into the W-body.

Conquest351 wrote: From what I recall, the Chevy F40 transmission from the Cobalt SS was a manual 6-speed and apparently bolts right up to the LSx. Fiero guys are using this transmission a lot for just this kinda swap. Do some digging and see what you can come up with. I remember the name of the transmission because it's also the name of my all time favorite car.

Yup Fiero guys have been doing this swap for a while.

I've been having bad ideas involving this engine and an MR2.

In reply to pres589:

My buddy's 5.3 GP put a smile on my face more than once, and much more of a smile than my other buddies SC'ed 3.8 GP. Seems like a no brainer to slide a V8 in there. YMMV

e_pie wrote: Yup Fiero guys have been doing this swap for a while. I've been having bad ideas involving this engine and an MR2.

I would rather liberate a v6 from the vanilla hell that is a camry and stuff it into an MR2

I have had a northstar Fiero for a few years. I know people say that the 6speed will hold the Tq of a V8, maybe it will... but the gear ratio's suck. No LSD unless u wanna spend $$$>

an auto will stand up

All of the message board gurus and a few folks with actual knowledge advocate the L67 supercharged 3800 for the Fiero. And it seems like most of the actual swaps are 3.4s from mid nineties Birds and Cameeeros.

Javelin wrote:

HStockSolo wrote:

pres589 wrote: Another situation where more did not mean better. In the W-body I would rather have the 3800 or 3800SC.

Those are hardly the best choice for a W-body. The 2 I 've owned had the LX5 (Shortstar) and the L82 (3100). I definitely like the LX5 over all the other stock choices. Though the L82 was fine other than the intake gasket.

Say what? The 3100 is a giant turd of an engine, and the Shortstar was a mechanic's nightmare. The 3800 is virtually identical to the vaunted Grand National motors and can be either a reliable workhorse (we've had no issues with our 50+ miles on a used 3800 N/A) or an absolute powerhouse (several ways to go 11's on the stock long-block!). Without the 3800, the W-Body is just another vanilla FWD sedan...

the last 3.8 V6 to share anything with the GN was built in 1989 or so.. they totally redesigned the engine after that. there have been a few GN guys that have swapped stock 90's Camaro 3800 long blocks into their cars, added a turbo, and run down in the low 10's without any durability problems and stock driveability and gas mileage..

mad_machine wrote:

e_pie wrote: Yup Fiero guys have been doing this swap for a while. I've been having bad ideas involving this engine and an MR2.

I would rather liberate a v6 from the vanilla hell that is a camry and stuff it into an MR2

What about liberating a V8 from a bland soulless hell that is a GM FWD midsize thing?

e_pie wrote:

mad_machine wrote:

e_pie wrote: Yup Fiero guys have been doing this swap for a while. I've been having bad ideas involving this engine and an MR2.

I would rather liberate a v6 from the vanilla hell that is a camry and stuff it into an MR2

What about liberating a V8 from a bland soulless hell that is a GM FWD midsize thing?

Which is awesome except that they never had a manual transmission in the GM FWD midsize things. Thus the question.

DILYSI Dave wrote: Which is awesome except that they never had a manual transmission in the GM FWD midsize things. Thus the question.

There is the 6 speed F40 out of the G6 that will bolt right up to the LS4.

Here is a build thread about one. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/113207.html

e_pie wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: Which is awesome except that they never had a manual transmission in the GM FWD midsize things. Thus the question.

There is the 6 speed F40 out of the G6 that will bolt right up to the LS4. Here is a build thread about one. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/113207.html

Very, very interesting......

Reading over that thread, I guess the LS4 uses the same bolt pattern as a lot of different FWD engine/trannies GM has made, it's called GM FWD Metric or something like that.