Turbo Tune Transformation Testimonials

Adding an aftermarket turbo can totally change the character of a car—8 lbs of boost turns a fun little Miata into a thrilling baby 911. That comes at a cost though—quality aftermarket kits can easily cost $5,000 and up once fully installed and tuned.

On the other hand, ECU tunes for modern cars with factory turbos can typically be had for under a grand, and on many can turn up the wick by 50-100 hp and torque on a stock engine.

What I’d like to know is how much that simple power boost enhances turbo powered enthusiast cars. Does extra power really transform a Fiesta ST, VW GTI or Fiat Abarth, or just make them feel a bit faster?  What about the Mustang Ecoboost, Chevy Camaro, WRX or BMW M235i? 

Have you ever seen a simple tune change a car from “pretty good” to “hell yeah!”?

My Allroad had the 2.7 TT which was tuned by VAG to be....underwhelming at 250 hp/256 torques.  $600 for an APR tune got it to a (claimed) 318 hp/356 torques.  It was a night and day difference, before it was competitive with late model Camrys and such but nothing thrilling.  Afterward it roasted everything I encountered (particularly as the AWD system allowed stupid launches on wet roads).

So my standard reply- you'd better know what they are changing before dropping any money.  If the power comes from the right way, then what is going to fail early is well known, and easy to deal with.  If it's not done the right way, you can be facing some very expensive repair bills as holes are poked into pistons.

I would recommend asking what they are changing, and be clear that you have no way of doing the same thing, and are not interested in copying what they are doing.  What you want to make sure is that you not making a ticking time bomb of an engine.

And feel free to post here, making the extra power safely is pretty easy.

I have direct experience with the Mazdaspeed 3 which is famous for their sudden onset of boost.

If you bypass/drill out the restrictor pill (changing it from bleed boost to interrupt boost) and run a different EBCS you can remap the ECU to provide a less jarring onset of boost and a more linear power curve. It changes the feel of the car completely. You're in it for $150 for the EBCS, $400-600 for an Accessport/Versatune, and whatever the cost of the remap is. Plus the labor to drill out or bypass the restrictor.

I had some minor mods on the car and had the ECU remapped prior to the stock turbo letting go. It fell more into the "just feels a bit faster" (because it was) category.

8 lbs of boost turns a fun little Miata into a thrilling baby 911.

As someone who has driven at least a couple of turbo miatas and a couple of 911s, that statement raised my eyebrow. I don't want to rant about it, but i would say.. it's not that simple. At least not to me.

One of the things to keep in mind about tunes on turbo cars is that when you add power to an na engine with mods, you usually add it by extending the powerband higher into the rpm range. When you add power to a stock turbo setup with a tune, you generally add a crapload of torque in the middle and mild gains at the stock HP peak without really extending it much further upward. So, you basically reduce traction and make the car more violent and dramatic on throttle input. That is cool, but it's pretty street oriented and could be argued wouldn't make a true sports car much or any better on a track. I guess i would say you could expect a tune to make a car feel hugely better at <7/10ths, and only marginally better at 10/10ths. Unless it's AWD (see the Audi TT thread recently). 

One major way a tune can make a car go from blah to fun is by rectifying annoying drive by wire throttle behavior like throttle hangs and throttle lag after upshifts. 

Vigo said:
...you basically reduce traction and make the car more violent and dramatic on throttle input. That is cool, but it's pretty street oriented and could be argued wouldn't make a true sports car much or any better on a track....

I get where you're coming from: to truly 'transform' the car and improve track performance requires that tire, suspension and perhaps brake enhancements to compensate for the added power and torque.

That said, I'm firmly in the camp that believes 'violent and dramatic' response to throttle input is a desirable feature.  Nailing a corner exit jusssst right feels way more rewarding when the car is fighting and clawing for grip.

I think drive configuration comes into play a bit. A FWD car  that gets a big bump in hp/tq can just lead to more wheel spin/torque steer. That might be fun a couple of times, but won't really improve performance as much as it could because that extra power is mostly wasted.

Something like a Caddy ATS, or Ecoboost Mustang however can obviously handle that extra power with fewer drawbacks because those chassis were designed for more powerful variants from the start, and the wheels that power it don't also have to steer/handle most of the braking at the same time they're trying to move the vehicle.

You might be aware of a power increase in either one, but it might not actually perform any better unless the chassis can use that additional power.

In my experiance, factory turbo tunes are focused on low and mid range grunt. They usually do a pretty good job in those ranges. For reliability OEM tunes usually dont allow boost to increase or even maintain in the higher rev ranges. They may also use more conservative timing to account for lackluster fuel. This is the area where most after market tunes find improvement. 

IMHO, aftermarket tunes are great, but "usually" demonstrate improvement only in the higher RPM range. 

The best example of a "hell yeah!" turbo tune transformation is an N54-powered 335i with intakes, a turboback exhaust and a JB4. It went from "pretty quick" to "holy E36 M3"

nderwater said:

Adding an aftermarket turbo can totally change the character of a car—8 lbs of boost turns a fun little Miata into a thrilling baby 911

I disagree.  The Miata doesn't have as good of a driving position, the pedals swing the wrong way, and it doesn't try to kill you as much if you lift in a corner

 

Have you ever seen a simple tune change a car from “pretty good” to “hell yeah!”?

Lots of times.  Not just on turbo cars either.  I still clearly remember fixing the MAF transfer table and VE table on an LS1 Camaro - no real "tuning" like altering the WOT enrichment or timing tables, just recalibrating for aftermarket parts - and it felt like it gained an additional 100hp.  Part of this was because despite/because of the whole Summit catalog thrown at the car, it felt about as fast as a 3800 model because the tune was so out of calibration.

But a Cal Hartline chip in a Buick GN absolutely transforms the car.  Combine that with shortening the wastegate rod a bit to turn the boost up further, and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to really dial in the WOT mixture, and it's a real hoot.  Then get a slightly looser converter and it will build, say, 13psi boost (a common pump gas/stock turbo/stock engine figure) right away, instead of flashing to 7psi and holding there until the engine gets a chance to rev a bit.  THAT is the biggest change of them all.

It's why I left teh S60R completely stock but did get the converter restalled when the opportunity arose.  Now there is ZERO lag, it will flash to full boost as fast as you can push the accelerator.  And away you go...

NordicSaab said:

 

In my experiance, factory turbo tunes are focused on low and mid range grunt. They usually do a pretty good job in those ranges. For reliability OEM tunes usually dont allow boost to increase or even maintain in the higher rev ranges. They may also use more conservative timing to account for lackluster fuel. This is the area where most after market tunes find improvement. 

IMHO, aftermarket tunes are great, but "usually" demonstrate improvement only in the higher RPM range. 

Hm.  I think it's actually the opposite for the aftermarket.

The reason is that most modern turbo cars are built with what I would describe as undersized turbos.  They're sized to produce boost quickly at relatively low RPMs, which means that by 5K they're running out of breath.  Aftermarket tunes will turn up the boost, but there's much more headroom at the low end than the top.

For example, here's a link to APR's dyno chart comparing their stage 1 chip for the current-gen GTI to stock:

https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb.html

Looking at the stage 1 (software only) map for 93 octane fuel, it adds 111 lb-ft of torque (from 270 to 381) but only 81 hp (235 to 316).  That's an instance of a general trend, all of the stock-turbo chips add much more torque than they do power.  To get to the point where they start evening out you need to upgrade the turbo to something that flows better.  That comes with a hit to spool -- the chart for it shows a drop in torque below about 2500.

It really depends on the car. How de-tuned it is from the factory? How much head room is there with the stock turbo? Some can barely make stock boost, others can make much more. 

An an old but good example. 1G and 2G DSM’s both had 4G63’s. The 1G ran 10psi stock on a larger turbo. Cranking it up to 15psi transformed the car. The 2G has a much smaller turbo. It made about 15HP more stock, but at a higher boost level. I think It peaked at 14psi, and would fall off. Cranking up the boost on a stock turbo 2G added mid range, but not much peak compared to the 1G.

My Legacy GT has a smallish turbo. Rated at 250/250 stock. A basic tune will put it close to 300/300, with most gains in the mid range. Very noticeable, but not quite as transforming as the 1G DSM.

A car that really surprised me was the Evo 8/9. They already have a healthy tune from the factory, but it’s not hard to add another 75HP and a whole lot of torque on the stock turbo. It turns a fast car into a really fast car. Sure, lots of cars make 350HP nowadays, but a 350HP Evo can get around a track faster than a lot of higher powered cars. 

Fiesta ST had horrible throttle lag and felt a bit wheezy up top. With just a Cobb stage 1 tune it totally transformed the car. Add the Stage 2 items and it got even better. Went E30 and its a total mad monster. All this on the stock engine, transmission, clutch. Going on almost 60k trouble free miles.

My wife's Edge Sport was another one that surprised the hell out of me. 2.7L Ecoboost and AWD was fun in stock form with some 93 octane. I think it was suppose to make 315hp. Felt fast in stock form. Got it tuned by Unleashed Tuning on 89 and 93. On 93 octane the truck SCOOTS. Its a stoplight warrior and is easily a sleeper. Dont know eact wheel horsepower numbers but it has a shocking amount of torque off the line and mid range pull. Made a brand new 550i BMW look like it was standing still when he wanted to get in front of the "mom rocket".

I have had 2 tuned GTI's (2013 and 2015) and a tuned Saab 9-5. Makes a massive difference!

On my 2015 EA888 gen3 I am running a Unitronic stage 1 plus tune. goes from claimed 220 ish WHP to 285 WHP, and 80 or so FT LBS gain. its amazing, and it only adds about 3 PSI of boost, its mostly timing based.

On my 2013 I had a Revo stage 1 which was heavily boost based, and that was still very impressive ! 

totally worth getting a turbo car tuned

codrus said:

NordicSaab said:

 

In my experiance, factory turbo tunes are focused on low and mid range grunt. They usually do a pretty good job in those ranges. For reliability OEM tunes usually dont allow boost to increase or even maintain in the higher rev ranges. They may also use more conservative timing to account for lackluster fuel. This is the area where most after market tunes find improvement. 

IMHO, aftermarket tunes are great, but "usually" demonstrate improvement only in the higher RPM range. 

Hm.  I think it's actually the opposite for the aftermarket.

The reason is that most modern turbo cars are built with what I would describe as undersized turbos.  They're sized to produce boost quickly at relatively low RPMs, which means that by 5K they're running out of breath.  Aftermarket tunes will turn up the boost, but there's much more headroom at the low end than the top.

For example, here's a link to APR's dyno chart comparing their stage 1 chip for the current-gen GTI to stock:

https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb.html

Looking at the stage 1 (software only) map for 93 octane fuel, it adds 111 lb-ft of torque (from 270 to 381) but only 81 hp (235 to 316).  That's an instance of a general trend, all of the stock-turbo chips add much more torque than they do power.  To get to the point where they start evening out you need to upgrade the turbo to something that flows better.  That comes with a hit to spool -- the chart for it shows a drop in torque below about 2500.

 

 

This is precisely why I haven't bothered putting a tune on the 135i (N55). It already makes a crap ton of tq and midrange. Another 100 torques at 2800 rpms isn't going to help the already traction limited Pilot Super Sports. 

And it doesn't add much up top and the car is still running out of breath by 5500...........long before the 7k redline.