Darwin has this guy lined up too...
Darwin has this guy lined up too...
I don't see the 24-ton jack available any longer. There is a 20-ton:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00950285000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
sobe_death wrote: In reply to Taiden: Maths! Pressure, piston area, lever arm, etc. What bothers me is that jackstands don't say the stable load rating, just what it can hold up if everything is perfectly balanced. That's why even on my civic that I can lift off the ground, I use the big daddy jack stands.
I hope they do some sort of destructive testing! Also, I wonder if there is a nationally recognized safety factor for jack stands, or if every company just chooses their own based on cost of litigation in even of a failure vs cost savings against the competing jackstands.
edit: some website claims that ANSI regulations state that one jack stand must be able to withstand 1.5 times the rated load. But they dont say what kind of testing they do.
I've often had occasion where the jackstand is in the way because I have to jack "here" and put the stand "there" and...
When I'm working one corner at a time, what I've started doing is putting wood blocks between the jack's "legs" and supporting the pad with them. That way, the jack IS the stand. ...plus its base is wider than my jackstands.
I have a wide assortment of wood blocks cut from pressure treated 4x4 and 6x6 they supplement my jack stands alot when I am working on my less than perfectly level drive way. They are stupid stable when stacked in a criss/cross pattern and can support the car indefinately.
USE JACK STANDS, STUPID!!
JACK, USE STANDS STUPID!!
USE JACK, STUPID STANDS!!
USE STANDS STUPID JACK!!
!STUPID STAND, USE JACK!
not just in Florida. Noticed this in today's Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/search.html?st=man+killed+car+fell
"RIVERDALE, Md. — Prince George’s County police say a man has been killed while repairing his car in the Riverdale area.
Authorities say the car fell off a jack and onto the man about 1 p.m. Wednesday in the 5400 block of Carters Lane. Cpl. Mike Rodriguez, a county police spokesman, says the incident appears to have been an accident.
man was pronounced dead at a hospital."
irish44j wrote: not just in Florida. Noticed this in today's Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/search.html?st=man+killed+car+fell "RIVERDALE, Md. — Prince George’s County police say a man has been killed while repairing his car in the Riverdale area. Authorities say the car fell off a jack and onto the man about 1 p.m. Wednesday in the 5400 block of Carters Lane. Cpl. Mike Rodriguez, a county police spokesman, says the incident appears to have been an accident. man was pronounced dead at a hospital."
PG county represent! This is indicative of most of PG's residents. Thank god I moved out.
Jacked up the Volvo one day and put the front end up on stands. Got up and gave the car a SHOVE. My dad or uncle (cant remember which honestly) said "be careful! you might drop the car!"
I looked at him... Hey man, better it fall now, then with me under it...
Funny how you naturally think sometimes eh?
way back in olden times, there was a guy named Darwin that had some sort of a theory that might apply here..
ThePhranc wrote:irish44j wrote: not just in Florida. Noticed this in today's Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/search.html?st=man+killed+car+fell "RIVERDALE, Md. — Prince George’s County police say a man has been killed while repairing his car in the Riverdale area. Authorities say the car fell off a jack and onto the man about 1 p.m. Wednesday in the 5400 block of Carters Lane. Cpl. Mike Rodriguez, a county police spokesman, says the incident appears to have been an accident. man was pronounced dead at a hospital."PG county represent! This is indicative of most of PG's residents. Thank god I moved out.
I live in Fairfax, but sadly I work in PG. There is something to be said for "no driving laws enforced" there though. I get all my crazy/fast driving out of my system there every day, before coming back into Va. and driving normally :D
In reply to 93EXCivic:
I user ramps too. When I jack up the car, I put the ramps under the side frame/sill of my car, then let the car down a bit until it settles onto the ramp. Much better than jack stands... but I use those too (redundant, kinda like needing 2 side impact bars on roll cages?)
oldeskewltoy wrote:Gearheadotaku wrote: sometimes I get nervous even with jackstands...why I bought quality stands... 2 - 6 ton stands(28" of total reach) and 2 -4 ton stands(20" of total reach)
If you stack them, you can get a car 4' off the ground!
For many moons I just about never used jack stand. I remember removing a trans and t-case from a jeep with no jack stands. Lots of brake and suspension work as well. Then I started reading stories like this. I now use them 99% of the time. Like someone said, I fear it'll fall on my, but allow me to live for a few horrible hours while I look at the unused jack stand in the corner of my garage and think of my kids getting married without me.
Last Sunday at the ice races, I found two guys under a car with supported by jack only. Being Chief Steward, I told them to get jack stands or get out from under the car. I would have yelled at them regardless. "Don't mind the sight of blood, just can't stand the screaming"
Taiden wrote: Jack stands and spare wheels with tires mounted. Floor jack lightly touching a sturdy section wherever I'm working.
That's exactly how I do it too. I also have a filthy "shop phone" in the garage that I keep within reach, and MAMA KNOWS HOW TO USE THE JACK! I try not to work on stuff when no one else is at the house.
I try not to work on stuff when no one else is at the house.
This is a big one in my book!
In reply to dean1484:
x2!!!
DILYSI Dave wrote: My fear, and one of the motivations to using good jackstands, is that when the car landed on me, it wouldn't kill me instantly. I'd lay there dying for an hour, contemplating what an idiot I was, for the remainder of my short life.
One of my mentors had a jack-seal failure when he was 16. His skull x-ray looked like a hard-boiled egg cracked and ready to be peeled.
He was conscious and trapped for almost a half hour, until his big brother came home from work and found him. 
BUT he lived another 40 years with no lingering effects.
I'm paranoid when it comes to safety working on cars. Always use safety glasses and latex/nitrile gloves when working with fluids. Too much stuff we work with is really nasty. Brake cleaner, brake fluid, heck, even motor oil is nasty. I guess working in the environmental consulting world makes you paranoid. And then walking into a nasty concoction of chemicals and flammables in a level A suit (chemical moon suit) makes you even more paranoid when it comes to safety. I've seen too many bad things happen to people that were 100% preventable. Spend the money and time to get jack stands. Even if changing wheels or bleeding the brakes, it still takes a lot less time than one trip to the ER because you were lazy.
DO IT!
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/330469/3/Illinois-man-killed-when-car-jack-fails
I've never heard of someone being injured when a car fell on them off of a jack.
That's because they're always killed!
chaparral wrote: I've never heard of someone being injured when a car fell on them off of a jack. That's because they're always killed!
My sister's neighbor had a spinal compression and ended up about 2" shorter because the car slipped while he was doing a brake job. Ended up with his head jammed under the wheelwell until they noticed and got him out. He lived, but it definitely was a permanent and serious injury.
I saw a guy this weekend tryin' harder than usual to injure someone.
Car, front on stands, flat ground, in gear - nice and safe to swap pads and so on. He was juuust about to hit the starter (for reasons unknown) with a guy tucked under the wheel well when one the more attentive people standing around hollered stop.
Nothing is foolproof. Fools are remarkably ingenious.
sometimes I get nervous even with jackstands...
We should. I once knocked the front (only the front was lifted) of one of my cars off 4 jack stands with a hand tool. There were 4 jack stands and the front tires under the car. The 2nd set of jack stands gave me the time i needed to roll out, and the tires might have kept me alive if i had not gotten out.
As a tech ive never gotten used to standing under cars on lifts, either. Plenty to go wrong there too. Ive had a car fall partway off a drive-on lift, and ive worked around some really questionable old in-ground lifts and some two posts that didnt like to come down perfectly even.
I cant say i always take every imaginable precaution. But i am a fan of doing whatever's easy to give you that extra margin, even if it doesnt seem professional. I.e. throw the front tires under the car if its on the ground. Set some more jack stands under there even if they arent in the 'right spot' or dont have weight on them at rest. They'll still slow it down. If you're under a lift, put a lift jack or a trans jack somewhere under the car, even if you dont snug it up against anything. It doesnt have to be pretty or perfect, it just has to give you 1 second, maybe less.
Honestly i think the worst thing you can do is be totally confident or think you can MAKE it safe. Its never perfectly safe. Working under a car is like riding a motorcycle. Sure, millions do it every day and dont die, but its not 'safe' and never will be, and you'd do well to keep a bit of paranoia going at all times.
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