Vans, Full Size, New, Learn me........

Ok, what I really want to do is buy something stupid and fast. What my wife wants me to do is buy something that doesn't suck for the whole family as much as my truck on long road trips. Four kids, dog, crap, needs to haul race car on trailer. Full size SUV's piss me off because if you use the third row seat, you lose ALL of your cargo space. Dumb. That pretty much leaves me with full size vans.
Chevy will sell me a 6.0 with the good six speed transmission in a 2500. I like that.
GMC will sell me the same van, or I can go AWD, 5.3 but am stuck with the old crappy 4 speed trans.
Ford will sell me a new Transit van next year some time probably but it looks like it's tow capacity is limited to something like 5,000 lbs which is not so nice for towing the race car.
Nissan will sell me a van, but I don't know too much about them other than people seem to like the vans but don't like the Titan which they're based off, which is weird.
I don't really want to buy a van. I really want to buy a dumb sports car and make my kids suffer when we travel, but I should at least think about it.
Help me out here.

Buy a Ford Econoline while you can. Get the V8 if you think you need it, otherwise get the V6. If you drive it nicely it will get 17-19 mpg and last 300K. If you drive the crap out of it it will get 14-16 mpg and last 400K. I've got three of them now with 270K to 430K on them.

Funny you should mention this. I still have an ongoing Autotrader search and this baby just popped up:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2011&zip=19021&keywordPhrases=Conversion&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&pricesOnly=true&mmt=%5BFORD%5BE250ECON%5B%5D%5D%5B%5DFORD%5BE350ECON%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&featureCodes=3&modifySearchId=59769705&lastExec=1360769008000&vehicleStyleCodes=VANMV&modelCode1=E350ECON&sortBy=distance&showcaseOwnerId=579471&makeCode1=FORD&startYear=2000&searchRadius=500&bodyStyleCodes=VANS&listingId=354482187&Log=0

E-250 means it can tow. Extended-ass for extra cargo room. 32" flat screen to keep the kids in the back entertained.

Part of me really wants it, but I'd feel a bit guilty ripping out most of the conversion bits to turn it into a camper.

What about same 2500 van with the Duramax? Yes yes?

I've been wondering if it's possible to get a recent Suburban and install a Duramax and Allison combination. Room in the back behind the third row, loads of torque. Not sure on the towing rating of Suburbans but I'd expect it's up there. Bound to be better mpg than a gas V8. Does GM not see the potential?

edwardh80 wrote: What about same 2500 van with the Duramax? Yes yes? I've been wondering if it's possible to get a recent Suburban and install a Duramax and Allison combination. Room in the back behind the third row, loads of torque. Not sure on the towing rating of Suburbans but I'd expect it's up there. Bound to be better mpg than a gas V8. Does GM not see the potential?

Yes. This. The Duramax van sounds like a great fit.

And there is a company that specializes in converting the modern GM gas SUVs to Duramax. Google Duraburb. If I had oodles of money, I'd want one. For now, my previous generation (factory-installed) dieselBurb will have to suffice.

Vans have one foot in the grave in the U.S. - you had better act fast! My father still drives a full-sized Chevy, and they are hard to find with windows and seats. He treats it like he hates it, but it just keeps running.

edwardh80 wrote: What about same 2500 van with the Duramax? Yes yes? I've been wondering if it's possible to get a recent Suburban and install a Duramax and Allison combination. Room in the back behind the third row, loads of torque. Not sure on the towing rating of Suburbans but I'd expect it's up there. Bound to be better mpg than a gas V8. Does GM not see the potential?

The Duramax comes in the 3500 and is an $8K option. That's a LOT of fuel and kind of hard to justify. Kind of.

Toyman01 wrote: Buy a Ford Econoline while you can. Get the V8 if you think you need it, otherwise get the V6. If you drive it nicely it will get 17-19 mpg and last 300K. If you drive the crap out of it it will get 14-16 mpg and last 400K. I've got three of them now with 270K to 430K on them.

I know they're as durable as a stone, but why are they better? The tow capacity on the 150 is only 5300 lbs. If I'm going to stoop that low I might as well wait for the new Transit.

I can get a factory installed fuel operated auxiliary heat generator in the Duramax Chevy. If I have to live in a van down by the river, that sounds nice.

mazdeuce wrote:

edwardh80 wrote: What about same 2500 van with the Duramax? Yes yes? I've been wondering if it's possible to get a recent Suburban and install a Duramax and Allison combination. Room in the back behind the third row, loads of torque. Not sure on the towing rating of Suburbans but I'd expect it's up there. Bound to be better mpg than a gas V8. Does GM not see the potential?

The Duramax comes in the 3500 and is an $8K option. That's a LOT of fuel and kind of hard to justify. Kind of.

This website:

Duramax van goodness

told me otherwise. You'll have to select the Duramax engine option in the dropdown menu on the right-hand of the three columns.

Perhaps the 6.0L van and drop it off here?

But wait, don't you live in Texas? Isn't it a state law you have to drive a Suburban?

The Econoline is about as reliable as Old Faithful...but isn't it just about as ancient? I know they got a facelift a few years back, but isn't it still based on the same van from 20+ years ago. I deal with a ton of them in my line of work, and contractors love them to death. But would you be OK with it's ancient bones? I don't have first hand experience with the Nissan NV except to have crawled all around them at the auto show. Seem quite nice to me.

No longer new, but definitely special.

Also I really want one, so I never miss a chance to hotlink a pic.

In reply to mazdeuce:

I towed my 20' enclosed trailer with a 5.4 equipped E150 conversion van for a couple of years. That pretty much maxed out it's capacity. My 16' open trailer towed like it wasn't even there.

Econolines are just plain bullet proof. I have three that are on the road 5 days a week. The oldest is a 97, the newest is a 02. They are dependable as gravity and fairly cheap to operate. They are also as common as dirt, so buy in is usually lower than the other brands. Everyone hates on the front ends but I find them to require a lot less maintenance than most others and despite the rumors they aren't any harder on tires.

My current van is a 2002. It has 365K miles on the original engine, transmission and rear end. Monday it towed a loaded 16' trailer 250 miles. Tuesday it did a 200 mile round trip to Myrtle Beach, Wednesday a 200 mile round trip to Florence. Today it's getting a break. I would literally drive it across country today and bet money it would make it there and back. My 99s, 95, both 97s and 00 were all just as dependable and cheap to operate. My 95 rusted, but anything after 97 has a galvanized body. The new Transit better be impressive or there are going to be a lot of pissed of Ford customers.

Drove a '97 Chevy G3500 for several years as a delivery van. 4000lbs of cargo didn't phase it. Rode nice even when empty. As far as I know the current ones are basiclly the same with updated engine choices. Drive a few different ones and see what you like. Vans have always struck me as a better value over big SUV's. More space, less money, same fuel economy.

I vote the GM van with the duramax. They are awesome.

Transit wagon, 148" wheelbase, 83.6" roof, 3.2L powerstroke, tuxedo black.....boom, done.

Longer wheelbase will tow better, and the I-5 turbodiesel should do well. The 3.5 ecoboost is also an option, and is probably the same one from the F-150.

Edit: Also, the LWB Transit wagon can seat 12 people standard and go up from there.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: Perhaps the 6.0L van and drop it off here? But wait, don't you live in Texas? Isn't it a state law you have to drive a Suburban?

I could drop it there, but Hennessey is right up the road. We rallycross there.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: No longer new, but definitely special. Also I really want one, so I never miss a chance to hotlink a pic.

I want to do this. Maybe not a Dojiban, but same general idea. A SWB Chevy with the 6.0 seems like it would be a solid foundation for stupid van stuff. On the other hand, the Nissan is just ugly enough that I think it would lend itself better to low and ridiculous.

7.3 Power Stroke 2WD Excursion. All of your family people hauling/stuff in the back/towing a house needs wrapped up in one package. Opt for the 'Limited'.

I am a GM guy by a large margin but I believe that Ferd figured out the formula for vans. We had three E150's that we put through hell and back and they where unkillable. Even with a complete lack of maintenance. We also had a box truck with the V10 in it and I don't recall anything ever going wrong with it.

I would still get the GMC if it was my money though

mazdeuce wrote: I can get a factory installed fuel operated auxiliary heat generator in the Duramax Chevy. If I have to live in a van down by the river, that sounds nice.

As part of the Cold Weather Package it's really cheap too. A diesel heater in a Sprinter is about a $2700 option.

The depressing part of me is pricing one of those vans out on the GMC site, then wondering how much more the conversion company will want for the raised roof. Once you've had a raised roof van, low versions just aren't as useful. I'd be looking at a $70K van. Ouch.

Be sure to research the SWB van before going too far. You may find you'll run into the same issue as the 3-row SUV's: lack of cargo room behind the 3rd seat. Even my standard length E-150 only had a couple of feet behind the rear bench.

I don't actually need the third row. Two rows of benches gets me seating for 8, or in daily life it gives me a space between each kid in the second and third row. They've been smashed together in cars their whole lives and they would probably appreciate the space.
This brings up another issue. Which van is better at being a car? It would occasionally need to do truck stuff like tow the race car, but 99.5% of the miles would be kid hauling and grocery shopping and such. When I look on the web sites, Nissan seems to be the only one with any thought at all toward the passengers. GM and even more so Ford seem to sell cargo vans with seats in the back.

In reply to mazdeuce:

No windows = no seats.....the 2500 express behind me doesn't even have mounting points for rear seats.

Yes, I know that, I meant more as a design philosophy. The big 2 seem like cargo vans with windows and seats. I guess the side airbags in the GM vans are a nod to passengers but Ford seemed to quit trying a while ago.
I grew up in vans and put a lot of miles on them when I was a teenager. I like them.

I must have driven a bad econoline, or maybe one without a tow package. I tried to tow a car from OH to AZ and the transmission died in Kansas. Before the mountains...