Expedition vans are cool, but inevitably they don't have decent safe seating for a herd of people. Sprinters haven't been on my list primarily due to cost.
How is a suburban not the easy button here?
My dad has multiple full size vans at any one time. For a while it was 4 fords now 2 Chevys a gm and the one ford that hasn't died. He hates the fords, 2 of them had consistent issues with rear axles, another one couldn't keep the front end aligned. The latest 2500 gmc pulls my heavy trailer and light car like it's not even there
Cargo room in suburbans suck if you're occupying the third row. If I'm going to drive something that big I'd rather have the actual useful space of a van. I like vans. I like pulling out the seats and buying lumber with them. I like loading dirt bikes in the back and sleeping with the smell of oil in my nose. I like being able to haul 11 other people. Vans are far superior to full sized SUV's in the same way mini vans are superior to CUV's. They just are.
Good points on the van. As Lon as you don't have to work on them they are great
Which is the other thing about the Nissan. It has a normal-ish hood and the engine is in front of the firewall. That also removes the doghouse from the cab.
Vans are far superior to full sized SUV's in the same way mini vans are superior to CUV's. They just are.
We have common sense, they have pitchforks. makes balancing scales motion with hands
If you're avoiding Sprinters due to cost, what's the budget? I personally think a GM van is the way to go on a conventional full-size. But i also think conventional full-size vans are a uniquely american kind of stupid compared to euro van designs like the Sprinter and the stuff we are just getting like Transit and Promaster. They're rolling fossils of design. Aside from their vestigial ties to 1960s pickup trucks, there's no good reason for that kind of vehicle to be rwd-based or have a giant gas motor or even weigh what they do.
The Nissan will likely ride the best due to the front wheels being farther away from the occupants - that whole polar-motion thing. I'm not convinced the long nose will make them any easier to work on. You will get more front leg room though, which in most vans really stinks. Fords and newer GM's are better than older GM's and Dodge. My biggest complaint about the Nissan is that long nose is wasted wheelbase in my eyes compared to other vans of similar overall length.
Put a diesel engine in a GM or Ford and the Sprinter becomes more competitive price-wise. I built a diesel GMC with a bunch of similar options and it was over $53K.
If you want to be able to pull the seats out easily, you DON'T want a conversion van. I know from experience, those seats don't like to come out easily and going back in is even more of a PITA.
As far as which is best at being a car? Well, you have to opposing needs here. You want something that will ride reasonably well (a 1/2 ton based van), but tow decent too (3/4 ton for heavier chassis, axles and brakes). In today's market of huge SUV's and 6 passenger 4 door pick-ups, full-size passenger vans are not really at the top of the design criteria. They're designed for work markets first and passenger market second. No matter what, there will be a bit of a "school bus" feel to the passenger versions.
I'm pretty sure the Nissan is a more practical choice, but the Chevy with the 6.0 is a set of long tube headers and Martini Racing livery away from being straight up awesome to wake up to in the morning.
Vigo: I know what you mean about the dinosaurs. However, towing 6,000 lb trailers at 85mph across the wastelands of Texas isn't exactly what the Euro vans are made for either, and that is a reality of the American landscape.
In the hypothetical case of the GM fullsize, are you against conversion vans? Because modern gm conversion vans are friggin sweeeeeeeeeeeet.
Not against them, just don't want to pay for them. I also want to be able to yank the seats and pick up drywall and haul motorcycles.
mazdeuce wrote: Vans are far superior to full sized SUV's in the same way mini vans are superior to CUV's. They just are.
I see that it doesn't snow where you live. Because in some parts of this great nation, the ability to get 4wd makes all the difference.
I will buy another E150 Chateau van tomorrow, stay tuned. I loved my 94 351 E150 Chateau until it rusted away. My E150 was factory rated at 7000lb towing.
At the Mitty circa 2010
In reply to mazdeuce:
The panel van I drive everyday for work has the 6L, it will get out of its own way, but it doesn't weigh enough to soak up bumps.
One other thing, as we know, wheelbase is your friend with towing......the GM's actually have a long wheelbase while the econolines just have extended bodies(the new transit fixes that), legroom up front is just fine in the chebby.......PITA to work on though.
Tom_Spangler wrote: I see that it doesn't snow where you live. Because in some parts of this great nation, the ability to get 4wd makes all the difference.
Meh... Even with all of the snow we've had in the Northeast this year, I somehow managed to survive in a FWD minivan... with crappy all-seasons, no less (although I do plan to buy snow tires for next year).
Ian F wrote:Tom_Spangler wrote: I see that it doesn't snow where you live. Because in some parts of this great nation, the ability to get 4wd makes all the difference.Meh... Even with all of the snow we've had in the Northeast this year, I somehow managed to survive in a FWD minivan... with crappy all-seasons, no less (although I do plan to buy snow tires for next year).
FWD minivan != RWD full-size, but there's also the whole "I need to get my trailer out of my muddy back yard" factor (which I just experienced), off-roading, and a whole host of other reasons that 4x4 can be awfully handy. My only point being that you can't universally say that vans are better than SUVs when you factor in 4x4.
In reply to Tom_Spangler:
GM offers an AWD full-size van.
There are rumors M-B will be bringing over the AWD Sprinter. Now if they could jsut be convinced to offer the manual transmission here... 
They confirmed those! Real 4x4 with low range.
Tom_Spangler wrote:Ian F wrote:FWD minivan != RWD full-size, but there's also the whole "I need to get my trailer out of my muddy back yard" factor (which I just experienced), off-roading, and a whole host of other reasons that 4x4 can be awfully handy. My only point being that you can't universally say that vans are better than SUVs when you factor in 4x4.Tom_Spangler wrote: I see that it doesn't snow where you live. Because in some parts of this great nation, the ability to get 4wd makes all the difference.Meh... Even with all of the snow we've had in the Northeast this year, I somehow managed to survive in a FWD minivan... with crappy all-seasons, no less (although I do plan to buy snow tires for next year).
All true points on both sides. I do live someplace where snow is not a factor. That said, I grew up in Michigan driving vans and did fine there too though one had to be prudent about it. I've done just fine in my 2wd truck for the past 7 years. I don't think it's and issue for me and I'll keep Quigley on my speed dial just in case.
Does anyone know off hand how the seats in the GM vans come out? The Nissan's are designed to be mucked with, but I can't tell what the procedure is on the Chevy and Google won't give up any answers.
Ian F wrote: In reply to Tom_Spangler: GM offers an AWD full-size van. There are rumors M-B will be bringing over the AWD Sprinter. Now if they could jsut be convinced to offer the manual transmission here...
I did not know that. That's good!
Another vote for an Econoline. I currently have a 2013 model. Got rid of my 2002 model when we got the new one. If you need to carry a lot of people and a lot of stuff a van is the ticket. I need one for a wheelchair lift and minivans are just too small to mess with when there is a wheelchair involved.
I'm leaning toward the Nissan. As much as I want the 6.0 in my life, I think the NV will be a better kid hauling dad van. It specs out almost identical to my crew cab truck as far as wheel base and towing capacity.
I could always tell my kids to buck up, daddy wants an M5, or I could follow my wife's advice and just save the money because the truck works fine. I think I found one at a dealer locally that I can go drive next week.
mazdeuce wrote: Does anyone know off hand how the seats in the GM vans come out? The Nissan's are designed to be mucked with, but I can't tell what the procedure is on the Chevy and Google won't give up any answers.
From what I've seen with factory-built models (vs. conversions and buses), in most passenger vans the seats latch into receptacles on the floor. They're still fairly bulky and heavy, so it's probably not a task you'd want to do every day.
IMHO, if you're trekking out to a Nissan dealer, you may as well look at GM and Ferd vans as well. Maybe even Sprinters if there's a dealer nearby (not all M-B dealers sell/service Sprinters).
I'd probably skip Dodge since they're FWD and the only positive to their looks is they make the Nissan less hideous.
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