Folks,
I come to the Grassroots oracles for advice and direction.
I have pushed the limits of my Volvo 850 Turbo to the point of crushing it autotrans. Yes, I know it was weak link...I had been looking to do a manual swap, so this is the opportunity. Manual seem to be hard to come by these days, any advice?
Are there any mods to the autotrans that can be made to strengthen it...like we do on the GM 4l60e?
I don't know much about FWD auto transaxles. Thanks in advance
what were these pushed limits?, My turbo 850 had 300k on it and trans was like the energizer bunny.
the autotrans is the weak link when pushing power from the turbo I5. The manual trans IS stronger. Shame I no longer have my manual 850 Sedan, I was looking for a turbo car back then to swap it into
The GM FWD auto trans you're thinking of is the 4T65E-HD, that was mated to all the supercharged 3800's in Grand Prix's, Monte Carlos and Impalas. It's good to the mid 300s stock. Upgrading the drive chain in the transmission and some other stuff can get you up around 450 with some reliability. If you can get your hands on the GM performance division upgrades (no longer produced), it's good to crazy power levels, 800+.
If you want a GM manual, the F35 five speed in the Cobalt SS is good to somewhere in the 400's. The F40 six speed with the close ratio gear set is good to a bit more, but they're fairly rare.
Until this thread, I didn't know there were manual swaps for these things. Sorry I don't have any info to add, but thank you for revitalizing my BTCC-inspired wagon dreams...
FooBag said:The GM FWD auto trans you're thinking of is the 4T65E-HD, that was mated to all the supercharged 3800's in Grand Prix's, Monte Carlos and Impalas. It's good to the mid 300s stock. Upgrading the drive chain in the transmission and some other stuff can get you up around 450 with some reliability. If you can get your hands on the GM performance division upgrades (no longer produced), it's good to crazy power levels, 800+.
If you want a GM manual, the F35 five speed in the Cobalt SS is good to somewhere in the 400's. The F40 six speed with the close ratio gear set is good to a bit more, but they're fairly rare.
Dunno if they are exactly the same or not (bolt patterns, cases, mouting points, ratios, etc), but most Saab manual transmissions from about 1999 onward are a version of the f35 or f40 as well. Even viggen transmissions go for less than $300 on the saab forums.
Robbie said:FooBag said:The GM FWD auto trans you're thinking of is the 4T65E-HD, that was mated to all the supercharged 3800's in Grand Prix's, Monte Carlos and Impalas. It's good to the mid 300s stock. Upgrading the drive chain in the transmission and some other stuff can get you up around 450 with some reliability. If you can get your hands on the GM performance division upgrades (no longer produced), it's good to crazy power levels, 800+.
If you want a GM manual, the F35 five speed in the Cobalt SS is good to somewhere in the 400's. The F40 six speed with the close ratio gear set is good to a bit more, but they're fairly rare.
Dunno if they are exactly the same or not (bolt patterns, cases, mouting points, ratios, etc), but most Saab manual transmissions from about 1999 onward are a version of the f35 or f40 as well. Even viggen transmissions go for less than $300 on the saab forums.
None of that Saab/GM stuff has anything to do with these Volvos unfortunately.
The only straight manual swaps for an 850 turbo would be a Volvo M56/M58 either from from the uncommon domestic naturally-aspirated 850 manual, the even rarer C70 T5M, or the super rare '98 S70/V70 T5M. I think you might be able to use P2-era gearboxes with some mods but I know nothing about that. You want a turbo gearbox if at all possible, IIRC the N/A 850 M56s have crappy synchros and bad ratios. Finding a donor will be hard and these gearboxes tend to be worth a lot used because they are extremely rare in the US. It can be done though.
The Aisin-Warner/Volvo autos are not that weak, my 855R with the AW50 auto was still bulletproof and had lived a hard life at 200k but its fluid was frequently changed and temps were kept under control. I know some of the drag guys build up the AW50 so I'm sure there is knowledge out there.
In reply to westsidetalon :
The limits were the high torque numbers. It estimate that the auto trans is only good or around 300 ish hp and 320 lbs/ft. The car was pushing close to 400 lbs/ft (based on estimates)
In reply to Robbie :
I have been eyeing some manual cars...to grab there transaxles, but most seem to be up North....which complicates things a bit. I am hoping to find a car around the Atl area and do the swap
In reply to pointofdeparture :
I am finding out how rare these manual turbo trans are.
I would take a NA manual though.
I am not aware of the drag raced AW50's. I will start looking at what is being done with those. My trans has a physical breakage. I have not opened it yet, but it's some like a sunshell (if that's what they call them in a transaxle or bearing...which seems unlikely). Things were loose inside. Example. The trans went into reverse on it's own and them locked like a trans lock...both in fwd and reverse
In reply to vazbmw :
What turbo and supporting mods do you run? Just swapped a 98 T5/5spd into a white non sunroof s70 for future BTCC Challenge car. Didn't realize how much a unicorn the 98 t5 is.
In reply to westsidetalon :
Westsidetalon,
Thanks for asking. These are great motors to mod.
Yes, you have made a unicorn out of a Moose LOL.
The funny thing is that they are basic turbo mods that net great results.
3" exhaust and down pipe.
In reply to pointofdeparture :
Do you have any sources of info on the drag racing AW50's?
Would the manual out of a C30 fit? Those are a bit more common.
I don't think so, but I will look into that...but I would still need pedals and all to make it work in the 850
A friend flipped hers near the Dragon a few years ago. There were a few parts off it I would have loved to get for my 1800ES build (the rear hatch latching parts). Considering how uncommon Volvo manuals are, I wish I could have gotten all of the drivetrain and manual trans parts as well. If not to swap into a 850/V70, just another C30 as manuals get harder to find and hold their value. S50/V50 manuals aren't terribly rare either, at least compared to the larger cars, although ones fitted to the T5 engine are more so.
I know that the mounts and cable setup are different in the P1/P2 (C30/S40/S60 etc) cars among other things so it's not a bolt in swap, but people have done it. Fab work required though.
As far as AW50 upgrading there are a few companies out there that make upgraded parts for the clutch packs, custom valve bodies, software tunes, etc. Level 10 will build your AW50 for a whole $4k but you have to really want an automatic to justify that price.
In reply to pointofdeparture :
$4K...naw LOL.
I am have not ruled out rebuilding my auto if I can't find a manual. Looks like a missed a manual 850 at the salvage yard by a few days. That was a bummer. I may crack my trans open in the next few weeks to see what's broken and determine if it's worth fixing. I did pull an auto at salvage yard and decided not to buy it. I was going to pull, rebuild it and run it. Then I got the idea that in the long run, the manual will server me better
If you can afford to wait, I'd hold out for the manual swap.
But I'm biased as my ex- had a 850T wagon with the auto and that transmission was the death of that car. Continuous trouble for the entire time she had it. Sucked, because she otherwise loved the car. The BW35 that was in her 1800ES when she bought it was equally troublesome, but that was easier to convert to a manual (we did it). I've been fearful of Volvo automatics ever since.
In reply to Ian F :
I agree. I can wait...even though I rather not...but I can wait (bitting my lip)
I am looking to make the car more dependable, and I think a manual will do that. The junk yards around Atlanta are full of Volvos that look to be in great shape. I have seen some 850s that look brand newish. The engines turn freely and all. I am suspecting the transaxles are the reasons they are in the salvage yards. Once that trans goes on these older Volvos are not worth fixing for most folks.
About a year ago, I ran across a manual 850 in the salvage yard, but had had an intense fire that damaged under hood and under dash. I am hoping that I will run across a whole car with in a couple of hours of Atlanta, or one in the salvage yard. I figure I will set a time table of a month or so and see what I can fish up.
If folks see something close to Atl. please let me know.
I have a 98 T5 manual with the busted manual. It's my 4th Volvo. Best advice is the accumulator mod to an auto. I've done a good bit of drag racing in a 95 850 wagon @ ~300 HP and youll be fine. The manual swap will be over $1500 if you can ever find it and its NOT stronger. More fun when its working but not better than auto with accumulator mod. Google volvo accumulator mod, works for FWD and RWD trans'. Bring it to Mont and we will help
PS, my s70 is one of 361 ever and almost 300 of those are registered still
Yep. The ex- had a remanufactured by Volvo transmission installed by a local specialist. Final bill was well over $4K. She had only had the car for a few months and we had dumped previous money into it trying to get it to shift properly and not throw codes (and thus go into limp mode). When she finally gave up on the car, she lost so much money it wasn't funny. Sometimes you win, sometimes not... Fortunately, the car was rear ended after she sold it and put out of its misery. Now her "winter beater automatic" is a 90's Grand Cherokee (her other 4 cars are all manuals)...
In reply to vazbmw :
thanks for the info! BTW counted 6 manual swaps for sale on ebay. This one was a $100
http://www.ebay.com/itm/93-94-95-96-97-VOLVO-850-MANUAL-TRANSMISSION-119K-MILES-/263260078335?fits=Make%3AVolvo&hash=item3d4b8600ff:g:J-EAAOSw4LdZ38l3&vxp=mtr
Junk yard engines have broken timing belts, dead Volvos due to interference engines are plentiful
In reply to Ian F :
Do you know why the trans was failing?
Yes. It sounds like just a bad roll of the dice on the reman. I am betting about half of that cost was labor...if not more.
My trans worked perfectly until it broke. I am blaming myself for the breakage. I think I asked too much o a 300K+ mile transaxle.
The funny thing is that we forget these were expensive cars bad in the day. Now they really have very little value, accept for strange people like me.
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