We should probably try to have a productive EV thread.

In reply to wae :

A 50 amp receptacle at a campground is a standard 14-50R. A level 2 charger should plug into it with no issues. 

We installed a couple of them at the family farm for RVs and EVs (BIL's Tesla S). The plug doesn't care.

In reply to mblommel :

The only thing constant is change. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Again, only real vehicles out now. Stop. 

I added it up, and 60% of my mileage comes on 75-95 mile one-way trips in SoCal towing a kart on an open trailer.

Place your bets. Will a new LiFePO4 RWD Model 3, rated range 272 miles, be able to do a 190-mile round trip with a trailer that takes my GTI from 41 to 35 MPG?

Frenchy, stop posting random nonsense. The ER Ford has a 320 mile range, and the Cybertruck doesn't exist. 

My ex-SIL bought two used 1G Leafs for very cheap, like sub challenge money. That could be an interesting cheap daily option. 

In reply to chaparral :

A quick poke at the calculator suggests 232 miles if the trailer has an identical impact on energy usage.

Between rating optimism and spherical cow factor I'd put my money on wanting some charge along the way.

In reply to frenchyd :

Fast doesn't always equate to fun.  My Cobalt SS turbo was by far the fastest car I've ever owned but didn't make the top three in "fun".  My FR-S (which the internet will tell you is so slow that it's dangerous) is by far the most fun car that I've ever owned.

The oil analysis on my 1998 4Runner with 430,000 miles shows no wear.  My 1998 Neon was at 450,000 miles when it started showing low oil pressure at idle, most likely from very worn bearings.  Hmm, maybe it's only 1998 models?

frenchyd said:

  Fun?   The Tesla is in the fast class at autocross  up with the Corvettes  etc.     I'd say that sounds like fun.  I suppose you'd have to relearn driving with the fierce acceleration.  As opposed to  ICE  which doesn't start to make serious power, real power,  until you are up on the cam.  
 

I'm currently autocrossing a 780lb  car with a 3.5 second 0-60 time.  The car also uses a CVT so it's always in the power band..................so from where I'm sitting the Tesla is an overweight pig.  Also I've only spent $6700 on my Formula 500 and it's way more fun than any road car costing less than 150K could ever be...............I say this as someone who's driven every model of Vette and Porsche made since 1984. 

I don't want a competition car that weighs more than 1800lbs with driver; when and if the Caterham EV 7 hits the market I'll consider and EV race car. 

I also don't want a street car that weighs more than 3400lbs.  

In reply to Tom1200 :

Scurries off to search F500 classified ads...

I'm not sure it's fair to compare new to used cars, or formula cars to production cars. The lightest 911 you can buy new weighs 3056 lbs....

Tom1200 said:

So for me there are two scenarios that EVs could work for us.

1. A city runabout for my wife; it would need to be 20K or less and close to the same size as her Santa Fe.

2. A tow vehicle; 35K tops (I'd seel the current one to offset the price), have a 350 mile range, and capable of towing 3000 lbs.

These may not be very realistic but it's where I'm at.

You might want to seriously investigate a BMW i3. It would absolutely fit your first scenario. We had a 2015 model with the range extender that my wife used for a city car. It was brilliant. And shockingly usable cargo space, especially if you put the rear seats down. They are fun/quick cars, have an *amazing* turning radius and fit very well in any parking place.

In reply to chaparral :

If you figure an equal drop (~15% on the GTI) you'll be getting close but might make it with about 30 miles extra. BUT.... didn't Tesla just get knocked for being overly optimistic on their range and the actual tested range is closer to 240 miles? Looks like from the chart in the other thread the Tesla's average out to around 9% optimism.  So, using that info now you're looking at an 18 mile buffer. Maybe a ford Mach-E ER?

In reply to Tom1200 :

checking forte curb weight.... Phew. under 3k lbs. 635lbs less than a bolt. 

Well this took a turn. My Bolt will end up being around $24k once tax time comes. That will change starting in January as the incentive for the Federal rebate will be able to be taken at the dealer. So then the price will be that at the door of the dealer. Not saying whether the incentive is best for the economy or whatever but in real terms, that is the price. 

On the issue of only finding loaded up models, that seems to be true of a LOT of cars. There seems to be very few to none of the base model of any vehicle. I recall looking for a base model ranger before the availability went to E36 M3 and couldn't find one anywhere in a couple hundred mile radius. That 'base price' allure is frequently so hard to come by that few get it. My Bolt was a base plus a safety package that was a dealer optioned order. I did have to drive 150 miles to get it though as all my locals were pulling that optioned up crap, possibly to reduce the sticker shock on the used Bolts they were selling for new money. 

Tom Suddard said:

I'm not sure it's fair to compare new to used cars, or formula cars to production cars. The lightest 911 you can buy new weighs 3056 lbs....

It's not a particular comparison but it's where I'm at. Basically Frenchyd was touting Tesla autocross perfomance and I was simply pointing out I can get way more performance for way less.

I have X number of dollars I'm willing spend on cars, be they tow vehicles, race cars or daily driver. For me I don't care whether they are new or used as long as they fit the my parameters.

In reply to singleslammer :

The super base low dollar cars have always been hen's teeth though. That's nothing new. But the massive jump from that $26k msrp to the $40k msrp as what's available is a little hard to swallow. ICE cars aren't usually as wide of a jump in that range. Forte range is $19.9 to 25.6(23% jump). EV6 leaps from 42k to 61k (32% jump). 

EDIT: The F150 Lightning ranges from $49-91k?!?!?? Holy smokes. 

bobzilla said:

In reply to singleslammer :

The super base low dollar cars have always been hen's teeth though. That's nothing new.

That's the truth. I was lucky to find my base model manual soft-top Gladiator with the only option being blue paint for $34k. Pretty much every truck on 3 dealer's lots were loaded out. Average price was over $50k. 

bobzilla said:

EDIT: The F150 Lightning ranges from $49-91k?!?!?? Holy smokes. 

ICE F-150s have an even larger $51k difference in starting price between the lowest and highest trim levels:

In reply to bobzilla :

Exactly,I've worked too hard over this lifetime to give up amenties just to drive an "affordable" ev.

In reply to STM317 :

JFC. I really don't understand how anyone affords anything anymore. We aren't all doctors and lawyers. 

In reply to STM317 :

I saw that. BUT.... the lightning is only offered in the crew/extended cab which starts at the Lariat from what I could figure out with their build tool, and that starts at 63k. 

In any measure I can't understand who pays $50k+ for a pickup. 

z31maniac said:

In reply to STM317 :

JFC. I really don't understand how anyone affords anything anymore. We aren't all doctors and lawyers. 

It could be a professional hazard but as a I purchasing guy I'm constantly aghast at what people pay for things. It's like everyone has forgotten how to manage a budget or shop prudently.

If Ford or whoever could do an EV F150 for that 33K ICE base model price and it could tow for 350 miles without a charge I'd be in BUT regardless of EV or ICE people have convinced themselves they need an $75,000 pick up truck.

Keep in mind I'm not anti EV..............I'm anti spend 20-30% of your paycheck on a car loan payment regardless of whether it's EV or ICE.

 Also note I totally get why at a certain point in there lives people want something more comfortable...........but you can do that without breaking the bank.