Weber/Vettel incedent

I really think that was all Webber's fault. Vettel had a huge run on him down the straightaway, and Webber made 2 moves to block Vettel, which just cost Webber more speed. So Vettel took the inside. If Webber was smart (not just b/c they're teammates, but for a racing tactic) he would've moved over to the middle of the track, or wider, gave Vettel the inside, and then try to pull an Over-Under on him after Vettel went too deep into the corner. Being that they're teammates, Webber should've stopped blocking after his first move, and give Vettel the inside. I would've done the same thing if I was Vettel, even the "Webber's crazy" hand motion.

Steven

I've finally seen the race (yeah DVR!) and knowing there was a Red Bull incident due to a very poor choice of thread title (spoiler!) we waited for it to happen. There was a large group of us and the one word that came out of everyone's mouth was STUPID! And we were all talking Vettel.

We replayed this at least 10 times and it always came down that Vettel screwed up.

If Vettel wanted to pass 1) he should have been more careful of his team mate and both of their cars, but 2) he should have relayed his intent thru the pits so that Mark would have been aware of the intent and they would have had an incident more like Button and Hamilton.

It was very clear, Weber did not block, he was on his line and in the replays Weber's wheels were in front so Weber won and Vettel should have backed off, but he was being a young buck who cared about himself more than his team or team mate. He has really dropped in my estimation.

He's nowhere near as low as Alonso is on our ranking system but he's doesn't appear to be worthy of a World Champion title. He has some maturing to do before he's worthy.

Vettel was ahead, but on the wrong line. Webber was defending his position but even he wasn't on the best approach for the upcoming left-hand turn.

Racing incident, with most of the blame going to the "kid".

But a racing incident that shouldn't have happened to team mates. A little radio work would have ensured it never would have happened.

I want to apologize for the thread title being a "spoiler".. I was so flabbergasted at the time, that I made it seconds after the incident, and thought little of what DVR viewers might (not) see. This is the information highway.

My main point was that teammates should not indulge in this kind of crap at the end of the race, when they have a pot-load of points already in the bag.

Seb is good, surely, but also young, dumb, and full of.. ego. Mark is well seasoned, and despite his diminutive stature*, a driver worthy of acclaim.

We won't know til' the end of the season how bad that one move hurt the Red Bull team.

*Mark is taller than his car is long.

where are you guys getting your info? How do you know Vettel didn't ask the team to pass and Mark didn't listen?

And Webber wasn't on his "line". He was way over to the inside. The line was several car widths over.

I was right with you guys when i saw the move. There are so many sides to take and arguments to be made, but what really found me speechless was the self-control they had in post-race interviews! When they were asking Vettel questions, he kept to himself and didn't burst out as well as Webber in the post race questioning in the Media room. I know i was sitting there, waiting on Webber's response which was him biting his lip - Very Professional of Red Bull's drivers to have that self control when their tempers were boiling over.

Then, 2 hours later, turn on the Indy 500. First lap, second turn, there goes Davey Hamiliton around and out of the race. As soon as the camera is in his face, what does he do? "Its all Tomas Scheckter fault!! He's an idiot, does this every year!!" Wow, way to keep it cool dude.

Now for the Vettel/Webber incident, whos at fault? Now if you ask me, I think it would have been wise on Webber's part to just let him by and carry on and take the fight to Vettel during the rest of the race. But then again, we will all debate this for a long time. All i know is i applaud the professionalism of Formula 1 for how the drivers keep their cool under such crappy circumstances...

My take is that Vettel had some trouble under braking that caused the pull to the left and otherwise they would have fought thru the corner side by side like Button and Hamilton did 2 laps later - and it probably would have gone to Webber in a fun to watch pass-repass as Vettel was not going to be able to carry speed having gone as deep and wide as he did.

I can't fault either driver. Weber for holding his place nor Vettel for making a risky attempt to win the race. Putting myself in either car I'd be trying to win. Sometimes that does not go so well. The only thing that makes this stand out is that they are team mates. If it was Hamilton and Weber or Schumi and Montoya we would just laugh at the post race interview and move on. Racing incident.

SLightly off topic - my stupid Time Warner Cable DVR recorded exactly 8 minutes of the pre-race and that was it. So, to watch the race I had to go to the intranets, where I found the BBC coverage. Wow, what a difference! First of all, the access to the drivers and teams was amazing. No commercials sure is nice. The commentary was worlds ahead of the SpeedTV crew, which unfortunately consists too much of correcting Hobbes' senior moments (though I do like Matchett). They seemed to have better camera angles and choices than I usually see on Speed's coverage too. I may have to stick to the Beeb's coverage.

If it was as later reported that Vettel had 1 gallon more gas than Weber and he could run full power where Weber could not he still should have backed out and had them radio to Mark to move over, I'm coming thru. It's not as if this was the last lap, there was plenty of time to get by if he truly was faster.

Hamilton and Button did a much better job of the exact same situation. They thought of the big picture whereas Vettel was all about himself. His infantile move cost Red Bull the Constructor's championship.

pigeon wrote: SLightly off topic - my stupid Time Warner Cable DVR recorded exactly 8 minutes of the pre-race and that was it. So, to watch the race I had to go to the intranets, where I found the BBC coverage. Wow, what a difference! First of all, the access to the drivers and teams was amazing. No commercials sure is nice. The commentary was worlds ahead of the SpeedTV crew, which unfortunately consists too much of correcting Hobbes' senior moments (though I do like Matchett). They seemed to have better camera angles and choices than I usually see on Speed's coverage too. I may have to stick to the Beeb's coverage.

Are you located in the US?

I've never found a BBC online source as its' broadcasts seem to be restricted from US viewers.

I thought that F1 controlled the cameras and everyone got the same feed.

carguy123 wrote: I thought that F1 controlled the cameras and everyone got the same feed.

F1 has control, but it sells access to broadcasters who build their shows around what F1 provides.

oldsaw wrote:

pigeon wrote: SLightly off topic - my stupid Time Warner Cable DVR recorded exactly 8 minutes of the pre-race and that was it. So, to watch the race I had to go to the intranets, where I found the BBC coverage. Wow, what a difference! First of all, the access to the drivers and teams was amazing. No commercials sure is nice. The commentary was worlds ahead of the SpeedTV crew, which unfortunately consists too much of correcting Hobbes' senior moments (though I do like Matchett). They seemed to have better camera angles and choices than I usually see on Speed's coverage too. I may have to stick to the Beeb's coverage.

Are you located in the US? I've never found a BBC online source as its' broadcasts seem to be restricted from US viewers.

I found a torrent posted up about 12 hours after the race. Looked pretty good on my 50" HDTV playing through my hacked AppleTV.

he was just "racin hard" like Earnhardt used to say. Nothing else to be said about this..

pigeon wrote: SLightly off topic - my stupid Time Warner Cable DVR recorded exactly 8 minutes of the pre-race and that was it. So, to watch the race I had to go to the intranets, where I found the BBC coverage. Wow, what a difference! First of all, the access to the drivers and teams was amazing. No commercials sure is nice. The commentary was worlds ahead of the SpeedTV crew, which unfortunately consists too much of correcting Hobbes' senior moments (though I do like Matchett). They seemed to have better camera angles and choices than I usually see on Speed's coverage too. I may have to stick to the Beeb's coverage.

IIRC there is only ONE feed. They can't, therefore, have better camera angles. They could be better, however, in that they are the ones we don't see due to the commercials

IIRC there is only ONE feed. They can't, therefore, have better camera angles. They could be better, however, in that they are the ones we don't see due to the commercials

That's what I was thinking hence my confusion.

I finely got around to watching the race. Probably one of the better F1 races I have ever seen.

The Vettel-Weber incident looked like two guys in cars on a race track, racing. They both wanted to be in first. It's kind of in their job description. At 150+ stuff happens. Vettel took a chance and tried to "make" room for a pass. It didn't work because Weber wasn't going to move. It cost both of them. Vettle will know next time that the other guy might not give you the room you need. Weber will know next time that giving Vettel a little room and taking second is better than trying to squeezing him out and almost being taken out of the race.

Kind of nice to see team mates race each other. Watching them tip toe around each other is kind of boring.

Toyman01 wrote: Kind of nice to see team mates race each other. Watching them tip toe around each other is kind of boring.

Damn good point.

Still fooked up the team.

Here in Korea, I am fortunate to get to watch all the races live on Star Sports, an Asian subsidiary of ESPN. Now that I rubbed that in...

Red Bull is my favorite team and I’m always rooting for Vettel/Weber. I thought the race was won for sure but then when the incident happened, I was also yelling at the TV…NOOoooooo!! To me it looked like a Vettel mistake.

StevenFV19 wrote: I really think that was all Webber's fault. Vettel had a huge run on him down the straightaway, and Webber made 2 moves to block Vettel, which just cost Webber more speed. So Vettel took the inside. If Webber was smart (not just b/c they're teammates, but for a racing tactic) he would've moved over to the middle of the track, or wider, gave Vettel the inside, and then try to pull an Over-Under on him after Vettel went too deep into the corner. Being that they're teammates, Webber should've stopped blocking after his first move, and give Vettel the inside. I would've done the same thing if I was Vettel, even the "Webber's crazy" hand motion. Steven

Apparently Red Bull's team adviser, Helmut Marko, agrees with you.

www.mibz.com/12875-red-bull-f1-team-webber-guilty-for-the-turkish-gp-incident.html

I also heard (and you know how reliable that is) - that Webber had to start some fuel-saving on lap 40, where Vettel was good until lap 41 - causing zee-German to catch up and try to overtake.