I'm in the "lightweight,FWD" camp, so your list of things like an Abarth, FiST, etc all appeal to me, too. BUT, I wouldn't rule out their lesser siblings either. As twowheeled suggested, it's a car. Get the best buy for your buck that you can and enjoy it. There are folks on here having plenty of fun with Hyundai Accents, regular fiestas, Mazda2s, Civics, Corollas etc. I currently own two R53 MINIs and an ND Miata and flip back and forth between them without a thought. Don't get hung up on RWD vs FWD now, especially if you enjoy light cars because there aren't a lot of choices in RWD anyway. Just test drive any good condition manual you find and see what strikes your fancy. If my wife wouldn't shoot me I'd be out looking for something simpler and lighter than my MINIs just so I could go pretend I'm a rally driver on the local back roads at 71 years old. All your FWD choices are on that list, plus a few more. Just go have fun. Life is just starting for you. Enjoy it.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
Thank you!! It seems my lightest options are abarths, mazda2s, and Honda fits. I like the abarth and FiST a bit more just from the emotional side - it's less easy to get inspired by a mazda2 or fit (though fits are fun). And frankly I've ruled out civics and Corollas (except for one civic si 8th gen) because I just can't get inspired by them.
Of my fwd options which are mazda2, abarth, FiST, Honda fits, 8th Gen civic si are there any you recommend over the other? The one that most excited me is the abarth (they sound amazing and seem so fun) but I don't know if the chassis dynamics are worse than other options
In reply to Duke :
Thank you so much! To be honest I have a hard time finding post '03 cars in my price range and near me. Is that a deal breaker?
Glad to hear the e46 isn't an embarassment next to the Miata!
A friend of mine had a high mileage E46 330i (2001 I think) through a lot of college. He did spend some time working on it, but it was generally reliable, didn't try to bankrupt him, etc. He did autocross it a few times and the car handled it fine, although more camber up front would have been a big help. Did just fine in upstate NY winters with snow tires as well.
In reply to Evanuel9 :
I have never owned any of those choices, so I can't give an impression of any sort. One of my sons has a Fiat 500 Pop and it has been a pretty good car for about 150,000 miles now. It's an auto, but drives nicely and is well screwed together, no rattles or squeaks. I'd love to try a manual version. I've owned other Mazdas ( a GLC and 4 Miatas) over the years, and they've all been as dependable as gravity, so I assume the Mazda2 would be, too.
Edit: I'll throw out a bit of a flier here....I like the first generation Scion xBs, too. My wife has one and it's the best car we've ever owned. Not a sporting vehicle by any stretch of the imagination, but it is fun, in a quirky kind of way. Again I'll say, go try stuff out. You may be surprised by what you like.
Will you even have a garage to work on a car if you're away in college? That would be a pretty big factor for me to stay japanese and not go with a fiat or old bmw. Your parents are right that you need to think about reliable and safe. Like I said, in college you'll be needing beer money and you may soon find other priorities like driving 3 pretty girls out for a weekend camping...
The fit would be the most sensible choice, sort of a swiss army knife vehicle that's still fun as hell to drive and can handle quite well with a few suspension upgrades. Same with Mazda 3 hatches, those feel very sporty. You really can enjoy any car...I had a Prius and drove several miles on gravel to work each day. I soon learned that a 300lb battery in the trunk was a great ballast and I could Scandinavian flick that car into some heroic slides.
In reply to twowheeled :
The answer is yes, sort of. My school has a Motorsports garage club with a garage and lifts for students to work on their own vehicles, but you have to reserve time and compete with other students for it.
I definitely agree that you can enjoy any car, but I want something that will also help me build skills and something that is analog and engaging on the road
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
Thank you! Honestly if I were to go for a hot hatch I'm leaning towards the abarth. Perhaps the least practical, and not as competitive or easy to tune as a fit but it's the most exciting to me.
I haven't seen the first gen Yaris recommended in this thread, so I'll throw that in the ring too. I had an '08 2 door hatch with the 5 speed with a mostly stripped interior. Still some of the most fun I've had in a car. It's like 2,300lbs!
In reply to maximumunicorn :
How does the yaris compare to the mazda2 or the fit? The yaris seems to be lightest of the three but also the slowest?
I only have experience with a Yaris 4dr sedan, it's a super-thrifty car and feels noticeably light but like a pretty ordinary economy car otherwise. The engine is definitely not as much fun as the Fit's. I also wouldn't expect to find any performance aftermarket for the Yaris.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
That's the thing with these econo-hatches that I am not sure about. They've got the lightness, but they're not a sporting chassis (and make no attempt to be). I'm not sure if that will be fun or a good platform to learn on. I liked driving the fit but I keep thinking "yeah but a real sportscar/hot hatch would be better." Is my thinking flawed
For anyone wondering, I've narrowed down my list.
In the FWD camp I'm looking at the fiesta st, abarth 500, honda fit, and mini cooper S. I may also consider the celica last gen celica GT-S but good god are they ugly. Mazda2 and yaris are out on account of being boring and worse platforms than the fit. 8th gen civics are out on account of weight (2800 lbs), despite the IRS which these hatches don't offer. Civics and corollas are similarly out on account of uninspiring to me. I'm sorry to those who suggested them, I'd sure they're great but I just can't bring myself to buy a car that doesn't inspire/interest/excite me when I have options that do.
In the RWD camp my ideal choices would be a 318ti (only found one with a responsive seller, might have electrical issues) or a 240sx (i found a single one in my price range, but it has rust so might be a no). Both seem to be very rare, but they're the "ideal" options for weight and RWD. I am also considering e36 coupes and sedans, and e46 coupes (but they're the least desired). I have found a 1985 celica GT-S which I am unsure about. On the one hand it is the lightest RWD 2+2 that meets my monetary and distance requirements. On the other hand it is older, not a great aftermarket, and would likely not be a great platform for any sort of track/autocross duty. Thoughts? E30s are out on account of no airbags, and so is the 1 series - it's just too heavy and too new of a BMW to be worth it to me. The IS300 is also out on account of the ridiculously low gas mileage, and very front heavy balance as well as lack of sporting intentions.
In the AWD camps it's basically just first gen imprezas, and second and third gen imprezas and WRX's. GC's are lighter but the other generations are probably better, especially being WRX's. Not really sure so if anyone has any knowledge or advice it would be appreciated.
Of this FWD choicesI think FiST is the best combo. It is a riot and a modern car. I like Corolla GTS, but good luck finding one under 200k mileage and they are 25 yr old cars now.
In reply to GTwannaB :
The FiSt does look awesome. The one I found has an ad in spanish and the translation says something about 3rd gear, so might not be the right option but will see if it's accurate. Did find a 85 celica gts but parents threw it out cuz no airbags
Yeah the FiST is the best of those FWD options. The last-gen Celica is a great car too, the engine will need a few mods to survive track use though and some shifter mods would be a good idea.
For RWD options the BMWs are all good (even the 1 Series has decent performance and aftermarket but has oddly un-sporty handling, and they're definitely not light, also I don't think the TC can be turned off completely without modifying the electronics), the 240SX is a good car but could be more trouble just due to their age now. I wouldn't recommend the '85 Celica as a performance car, it's a super old platform that wasn't even great for its time with very little aftermarket, and most of it is show/collector oriented.
I think you should consider what would happen if you got a 240sx or old bmw and had a costly repair bill of ~$2000. Would that be a deal breaker? Are you ok with working on a 30 year old car? Consider most rubber and plastic and some metal bits simply disintegrate, then you might be weeks waiting for parts, if you can find them.
The best condition fit or yaris would still be my pick. And yes, a well maintained ecobox is more engaging to drive than a clapped out rwd sports car needing suspension bushings, shocks, etc.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Thanks for the advice! The FiST does seem to be topping the list, but cost might be a dealbreaker. I spoke to the ad for the one I found and he said that 3rd gear squeaks. Not sure what that means or if it's a relevant issue but if 3rd gear grinds that could be a big deal.
Here's the ad if anyone knows FiSTs and wants to take a look.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/319799443729251/
If that turns out to be a real trans issue there is another one but it is over nudget. It is at a dealer so it might be negotiable down to budget but I don't know.
If the FiSTs are out I'm moving on the the abarths or the track prepped fit that someone linked on my other thread.
The cars that I want the most are the 318ti or the 240 - they seem like the best combination of lightweight, rwd, and still fitting all the criteria. But I cannot seem to find any without a myriad of issues. In fact, there are barely any for sale at all in the case of the 318ti and similar situation for 240s in my price range. If I could find one that didn't have significant rust or electrical issues it would be an easy choice.
Here are the ads for the two I've found if anyone who knows these cars wants to take a look:
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/864920535372744
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1083592602672906/
In reply to twowheeled :
A 2k repair bill likely would be a dealbreaker, until I get a few paychecks. But I struggle to think of what would be a 2k bill on a 240sx or 318ti besides a blown engine (and even junkyard engines are cheaper if I remember correctly).
I am definitely ok with working on a 30 year old car. It's just rust that does make me a bit nervous.
I know that an econobox is the most practical and smart option, but it's just not exciting to me like a true sporting chassis or even hot hatch is. Hence why I haven't rules Honda fits out, but they aren't at the top of my list
I've driven a Fit and a Mazda 2 when shopping for a fun econo hatchback. I'd take the Mazda 2 over the Fit for driving dynamics. The 2 is shockingly fun in the corners. Andy Hollis took home STF trophy when the class started with a 2.
I enjoyed the 2 every bit as much as my E30 that I owned at the time, which is very similar to a 318ti. Not trying to convince you, just saying. I get the appeal of BMWs. I've owned several. I just think you might be surprised by the little Mazda.
If you need more usable space, it's the Fit by a mile.
The Fiat has a terrible shifter, but is fun otherwise.
Since you are in the rustbelt and looking to buy an older car, don't be afraid to buy a cheap flight to go pick up a car and drive it back. Finding a car that isn't rusted to hell and 20 years old is a real challenge, especially for sedans that would not have likely been weekend only cars. Plus it opens up the market a lot to find something cheaper. You might be able to find a GRM member to look at it for you before flying out or there are PPI services you can pay to take a look. Plus you stand a better chance of finding one of your unicorn cars that way.
In reply to CyberEric :
Oh damn, I had ruled out the 2 since it seemed less sporty but this changes my perspective lol. I'll probably consider it again.
I don't want a bmw just because it's a bimmer, id prefer something Japanese. It's just that they seem to be the only lightweight RWD 2+2 cars in my price range.
In reply to theruleslawyer :
I really wanted to do that - in fact it was my plan. However, my parents basically said no for a few reasons including "what if you get out there and the car is not as advertised/not good, then you need to buy a last minute expensive flight home" "I can't do a road trip 6+ hours home with you because of a bad back" and "I don't want you driving a $5000 car on a 4 hour plus road trip home, what if it breaks down"
I will ask again with the PPI or GRM help and see if that changes their mind but my gut instinct is likely no
Evanuel9 said:
In reply to theruleslawyer :
I really wanted to do that - in fact it was my plan. However, my parents basically said no for a few reasons including "what if you get out there and the car is not as advertised/not good, then you need to buy a last minute expensive flight home" "I can't do a road trip 6+ hours home with you because of a bad back" and "I don't want you driving a $5000 car on a 4 hour plus road trip home, what if it breaks down"
I will ask again with the PPI or GRM help and see if that changes their mind but my gut instinct is likely no
You can always buy a RT flight. That way you can say no. Having a car trailered might be an option, but it is a large cost on a $5k car. You can get some quotes here. https://www.uship.com/vehicles/car-shipping-cost/ FWIW if you find a private party you'll save some money on doc fees, etc. Maybe tax as well. My last car was surprisingly cheap to register from a PP.
There is always the 'what if' question. Simple is that you'll have a cell phone and can call a tow truck if needed. You might be covered by AA, your insurnace, a Credit card, etc. A mechanical failure isn't the end of the world. However I'd approach it as getting a rust free car is more structurally sound and will be safer long term than one you can acquire locally with rust damage.
In reply to Duke :
As the e46 guy on this thread - this just popped up. Looks like a peach - granny owned car with no rust. Thoughts?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/217406314789109/
