I'm not pushing that Sentra but lets stay with that for a moment...
Agreed, in every new car review the Sentra lost to the Si. But, now, in the used market, that Sentra looked clean and at 111k for $6k was low miles while still being relative low price. The value question then becomes would this "par" Sentra be a better performer than a "sub-par" Si? What does the haggard Si require just to get back to par? Is it so haggard that it actually can not be brought back to par (like bad rust?)
In reply to John Welsh :
Ok yeah that makes sense, thanks for the example! I should compared across conditions and price to get it up to a proper condition and use that price to sort of handicap/adjust my opinion of the car - a more performance-y car isn't worth it if I can't afford it - and if a 6k civic si needs 3k to get it back together, I can't afford it. Even if a 6k civic si then needs another 1k to get it up to sentra level, is that extra performance worth 1k more.
Thank you! This really helps!
Yeah, that Sentra is a steal. I'd snag that one for myself.
More on this TSX since you like it...
There's a saying around here, "you don't just buy the used car, you also buy the previous owner" or something like that. What it means is don't just annalize the car, annalize the previous owner too.
As for owner on this TSX his profile show little other than he's a Purdue fan of probably 57 yrs old. Same age as me. The picture he shows sort of gives a Purdue Professor vibe. But, its a one owner car. That's great! Ask him questions about the upkeep and you will likely get real and genuine answers.
As for car condition, I notice things like this in pictures:
The intention of the above photo is to highlight the rust but what I see is Continental Control Contact brand tires. To me, this highlights that price was not his only factor for choosing tires. If they were some no-name BS tires, I'd be concerned that he half-assed and half-fixed things on the car. I suspect that is not the case here.
The ad further says:
Burns approximately 1 quart oil every oil change which is about 3000 to 4000 miles.
Somewhat concerning
Recent repairs and maintenance work:
New starter - Jan 2024
New spark plugs - Nov 2023.
New battery - Nov 2023.
These 3 above = great!
Right front tire replaced due to a sidewall blister - July 2023.
One tire is newer. Verify if it is same/similar brand.
New front brake pads and rotors - Sep 2021.
New AC compressor, condenser, expansion valve, and serpentine belt -July 2021.
All great!
Rear window and trunk lid replaced. Dent in roof repaired after tree damage - Mar 2021.
Ask if the roof dent still there? I don't see it. Probably insurance repair. If it's fixed, great. He also didn't need to mention this. Another sign that he is being forthcoming.
New tires at 106,000 miles - Dec 2018.
The car has had 40k more miles since the tires were bought. The picture show 700 treadwear rating so likely rated for 70k miles. With 40k on already the tires are then at less than half tread. In about 20k miles you should consider buying tires. Actually, 3 tires since 1 was replaced last year!
He gives no mention of struts ever being replaced. I would ask about that. Also since the 3 tires are at half life, I would look them over for "weird wear" which might be indicative of worn suspension.
Fall color leaves in the pictures. This car has been on the market for quite some time. Less popular model overlooked by shopper like yourself. You might be able to turn that into a reduced price.
Also a price comment....this looks like a well cared for car. The implied here is that the owner cares for and really likes the car. I suggest being complimentary to him about his upkeep of the car. I recommend statements like, "you intended to keep the car in top shape" and "that you plan to give the car the respect it seems to have always gotten and that it too will be your pride and joy." If the seller is not "race car guy" then I would play down or not mention that you are "race car guy." Many people preceive that as "ruining or wrecking a car." This respect you show to him and his car might get you a better price. I know around here, many of us just want to know that our old car/old friend will continue on in loving hands more than anything.
In reply to John Welsh :
Supplying some solid advice here and I do the same sleuthing when looking at buying used.... anything.
I actually want that TSX now. It's probably a really solid choice. 1 adult owner that's been maintained and is stock. It's something you can modify as your skills develop and evolve.
You're going to be searching for a long time for a decent EK Civic. It's been a million years, but I test drove a Mazda 2 and I got some EG/EK Civic vibes from it.
Man I want that TSX...
Admitted bias...
This is the car we did 2018 One Lap of America in:
John absolutely nailed it when he said "you are buying the previous owner" when you buy a used car. I would rather have a high mile BMW that's been well cared for than a 60k mile Civic that I'm not sure ever had an oil change. So in the big picture, Honda and Toyota are tops and reliability. However if the car has been beaten and never cared for, you're just asking for trouble. If I didn't love it so much, I'd sell you my E90. As I've said, it's closing in on 300k but you'd never know it. I've put 20k miles on it in about a year since I bought it. It has needed absolutely nothing except a qt of oil every oil change. It's rock solid. I also know it's history. The Cobalt SS my son had belonged to a GRM family member. It had over 300k miles and ran perfectly... until my son put it in a ditch. Point being that pick a few cars you really like then find the best example you can, whether it's number one on your list or number four.
A a few comments on the cars you listed. Let's remove the VW and Mazdaspeed just from a reliability standpoint as a whole. From the remaining cars, the fastest around a racetrack in stock form would be either the SS or the infiniti. The VQ engine from Nissan is very robust, but yes it is thirsty for fuel. I've had a couple. Their performance in my opinion nearly matches BMW. The Fit and Mazda2 are extremely safe bets, and loads of fun. From a stopwatch perspective, they will be the slowest. I would tentatively recommend an E90 with the caveat of IT HAS TO HAVE BEEN WELL CARED FOR. The N52 motor is actually extremely reliable. The cooling system needs to be kept fresh. If the car has had routine servicing, they are usually fairly good. Mine has been stellar, and I had a 128i before that which also needed relatively minimal work. The Acura TSX or RSX or also great choices, in my opinion above the fit or Mazda 2. Remember, the TSX is a Japanese market Accord. Speaking of, if you can find a V6 6-speed Accord coupe, they are extremely sporty. Fantastic in every way. The 4-cylinder 6-speed sedan is also surprisingly sporty as well.
Agreed on the above. My 2007 Si sedan I bought with 172,000 miles. The previous owner was a guy who commuted from Rockford to O'Hare so they were easy highway miles. The things I've had to fix or replace have just been typical high mileage older car stuff. Upon purchase it needed clutch hydraulics and shifter cables/bushings. A little while later I replaced the accessory belts. A couple years later around 205,000 miles one of the springs in the clutch disc failed which jammed it against the flywheel. Replaced clutch and flywheel. I'm in the process of freshening and upgrading the suspension. The VTEC solenoid gasket is leaking oil and the donut gasket in the exhaust needs replacing. Stuff I'll get around to. I've been crazy busy.
Of note - don't limit yourself to SCCA events. There's SCCR (find em on FB), Porsche club, bmw club, Miata club, etc.
In reply to John Welsh :
Thats an interesting thing regarding buying the previous owner. For example the other cars I test drive were you people. One clearly didn't really care about cars, did minimal maintenance, and just wanted the bimmer because it was, in his words, "flashy." The civic was owned by a guy who was clearly a ricer kinda guy, smoked in his car, and just generally didn't take care of it with terrible mods and stuff. The tires were also like off brand non name cheapos.
However, if a car is not a one-owner, is analyzing the seller going to be as relevant?
Regarding the oil burning - how concerning is this. Is it the kind of thing to ask a. Mechanical about before buying the car?
Thank you for the price/negotiating advice!
In reply to clutchsmoke :
I've got a mazda2 test drive scheduled, a long with a few other cars.
In terms of the ek, the one I test drive was in beautiful condition. It's a damn shame it was automatic or I would've bought it. I found one other nice one in stick in FB marketplace, but I want to test drive some of these other cars first.
Regarding the tsx et al., I want something that's stock, or close to stock and well maintained so I can do work of modifying it to my taste (proper suspension bits, lightweight bits, and other go-fast stuff), rather than having to work around damage, and a previous owners terrible mods.
In reply to John Welsh :
That's looks damn fun!
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Got it, yeah that's what I think I'm going to do. Narrow it down to like a top 3 or 5, and then just whatever the nicest car is.
I feel like judging the ownership history can be tricky. For example people say "oh I did this" but there might not be proof. Or something looks nice but it was poorly repaired or whatever. In the absence of proper receipts and proof, how can I judge maintenance history and such? Especially with older cars.
In terms of picking a car, sheer track speed probably isn't my highest priority just because I'm not good at wringing out that potential anyway. I think, after doing some introspection, road fun should be first priority because, as you said, I can learn in anything.
I will seriously consider the Infiniti, especially if their performance is that good. Mpgs aren't amazing but I can probably live with it.
Out of curiosity, what makes the ss and g35 the faster cars around a track? Power? Suspension setup? Combination?
In terms of the e90, and from what I've seen bmws in general, I feel like the well maintained is almost the problem in a way. Finding one that is well maintained will cost a price premium over a badly maintained one, but a badly maintained one will cost the same anyway in terms of deferred maintenance. The question is, can I afford the cars when accounting for the deferred maintenance of premium of a nice one. I'm not sure. Also since e90 s are newer aren't parts a bit more expensive and the cars themselves more complex?
I saw an rsx, not type s just base model for sale. I was going to test drive it but I wasn't sure. Is it worth a shot?
You may not realize it but this TSX was still Double Wishbone Suspension. I know you really want that from and EK...here it is. Quite possibly the last Honda offering of DWS.
Reviews from new: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15134657/2004-acura-tsx-road-test/
Lots of comparison to BMW 3 series.
The oil burning statement reads a few ways. Again, he didn't have to mention it. Quite honestly, mentioning it is probably hurting his sale. However, also read his exact words, "Burns approximately 1 quart oil every oil change which is about 3000 to 4000 miles."
His exact words also can be read as saying, "I change the oil every 3-4,000 miles." That is great and likely another testament to his care/respect of the car. The internet says capacity of this car is 4.4 qts. My guess is when he changes the oil the dip stick reads at the top of the range and when he changes the oil, the dip stick reads at the bottom of the range. This is acceptable and normal for many cars, especially at 150k. I wouldn't be concerned with this consumption but also know that you will not be able to rag on this car and delay oil changes just because you don't have the time or money. Actually, you could delay changes a little but remember to check and add oil if needed.
Another thing I didn't mention before, the sellers profile says he studied Metalurgy at Illions Champlain. Engineer? or at least an Engineer-like mind! Yeah, this is a guy you want to buy a car from. I recommend asking him about oil consumption and see if he will expand on the topic.
Also, know your customer. Given this guys age, unlike your age group, he probably prefers an audio conversation more than he does a text conversation. After a few texts you might want to ask him if you can call him for questions and to set up a time to meet.
Edit: yes, you should look at a base RSX.
Previous owner does matter, even if it's not one owner. Ask for service records. Carfax often will show service records, so that's a good tool. Like John said, know your audience. A middle age guy who can give details may be a lot better than a 20-something that can only say "dude, I put some serious E36 M3 in the car".
The G and SS would be faster around Autobahn simply due to a good mix of power and handling attributes. And as a side note, go ahead and look up their curb weight. 
. Yep, they're heavier than a Civic.
The BMW isn't the paradox you might think. The 3 series looses value anyway. Just find a well cared for one... with proof. If it has high mileage it'll still be cheap. I bought mine for $2700.
TRAGEDY
The one that got away!
In reply to clutchsmoke :
Fair market.
I hope the buyer was you!
The SS and VQ cars in your price range will be in rougher condition than you want to deal with. The Mazdaspeed is going to be the same story. Let's cross everything with forced induction off the list. Something N/A and reliable. Maximize your seat time.
This talk makes me sad... I'm supposed to be on a track today but am home sick instead. 
John Welsh said:In reply to clutchsmoke :
Fair market.
I hope the buyer was you!
I wish it was! Can't believe it was for sale for 11 weeks, but I guess the holidays had something to do with that.
Man, I didn't realize TSXs could be that cheap with that low of miles. Those are fantastic, and would have been perfect for you, since you don't like the Sentra. Too bad it sold. Or did you buy it?!
Just for future reference in case you find another TSX, the K24 has known oil consumption issues. I nearly bought an Accord with a K24 and it was consuming oil. I researched it, and there apparently was a problem with the rings (this was years ago, so don't quote me). Nobody likes mentioning this because it's such a great engine otherwise, and very hot for swaps. I don't think it's a deal breaker, but you want to buy one from someone who changes the oil regulary because of this.
You'll be hard pressed to find a good Cobalt SS or Saturn Ion Redline, but if you can, it'd be a good car for you. The Ion might be easier as no one knows what it is.
In reply to John Welsh :
Well damn, that went fast. At least I know what to look for in an ad that's indicative of a good owner!
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
:( that sucks
In reply to clutchsmoke :
Ok interesting. Why the problem with forced induction? Is it just that it attracts bad owners or abuse? As far as I understand many stock turbo cars aren't more unreliable than their lineup counterparts?
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Yep! It sounds like I should look for a car with an older owner who used it for commuting or similar, and someone with service records who maintained it meticulously.
Clutchsmoke said to avoid forced induction. Should I not be considering the ss? Thanks for the thoughts on the g and ss. I'm going to be test driving a g soon. Yep, g35 is around 3400+ lbs and ss is around 3000 lbs.
thanks as well. If I can find a decent, meticulously maintained bmw I'll consider it. If not then like you said - the nicest example of any of the top five cars
Evanuel9 said:In reply to John Welsh :
Well damn, that went fast. At least I know what to look for in an ad that's indicative of a good owner!
11 weeks...fast? 
Rather, it took too long to get on your radar.
Can you imagine if that sold for $4k (off $4.5k asking price)!
In the beginning of this adventure I suggested finding the money before finding the car because desirable cars don't stay listed for long!
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