Well now, this is interesting... Hyundai/KIA admit to false fuel mileage!

Javelin wrote: In reply to yamaha: But that's off the topic. What I can't figure out is how Hyundai/KIA did this. The EPA does the numbers, so it should have been easy for someone to look up the EPA numbers and see if it matched the sticker. Either that, or they gamed the EPA test somehow?

It's called self cert. Most of the testing and certification is done by the OEM. The fuel economy sticker number is calculated via the required tests.

Being how they are tested- it would be interesting to see where the error is. If it really was unintentional, depending on where the error is, it could be that the cars also emit higher than the legal limit as well. Just depends on how close they were certified.

FWIW, using the sticker number is a good way to compare cars- it a fixed set of lab tests- and we all know that real world fuel economy can be all over the place based on a lot of things. The tests for the sticker is well defined, and consistent for all cars.

Bobzilla wrote: Even if I qualified for this stupid rebate thing, I personally wouldn't take it on principle alone. If you're too stupid to understand that you aren't going to get 40mpg when you live in Long Island and drive 11 miles of stop-n-go traffic each way, then there is nothing any of us can do to help you.

It would be one thing if people were just complaining. But it was found that in the lab tests that are required, the fuel economy at one lab didn't match the numbers that Hyundai/Kia claimed. Lab test to lab test. It's quite a valid complaint.

You should spend some time on the Hyundai forums. People have been bitching about not getting 40mpg in a city environment since hte car came out, and that is likely the majority of the complaints. It got old before, it's old now, and it ain't getting better.

Bobzilla wrote: Even if I qualified for this stupid rebate thing, I personally wouldn't take it on principle alone. If you're too stupid to understand that you aren't going to get 40mpg when you live in Long Island and drive 11 miles of stop-n-go traffic each way, then there is nothing any of us can do to help you.

Where exactly did you get this information? How do you know these people don't have a legitimate complaint? Hopefully not just because you get better than the sticker on your car in your situation and with your driving style. C'mon man, you know how useful a sample size of 1 is.

Bobzilla wrote: You should spend some time on the Hyundai forums. People have been bitching about not getting 40mpg in a city environment since hte car came out, and that is likely the majority of the complaints. It got old before, it's old now, and it ain't getting better.

Seems like if there's that many people complaining, there might be something to it.

Bobzilla wrote: You should spend some time on the Hyundai forums. People have been bitching about not getting 40mpg in a city environment since hte car came out, and that is likely the majority of the complaints. It got old before, it's old now, and it ain't getting better.

And?

This news is about lab testing that doesn't match up, not people's driving.

This is about an investigation into high mileage claims AFTER people started bitching about not hitting the claims.

Bobzilla wrote: This is about an investigation into high mileage claims AFTER people started bitching about not hitting the claims.

So?

Had their cars met their lab numbers, probably nothing would have happened.

What you are saying is that it's ok to cheat if you don't get caught.

alfadriver wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: This is about an investigation into high mileage claims AFTER people started bitching about not hitting the claims.

So? Had their cars met their lab numbers, probably nothing would have happened. What you are saying is that it's ok to cheat if you don't get caught.

Well yeah, duh!

Edit: sorry I didn't put any LOLz at the end of that...

Bobzilla wrote: This is about an investigation into high mileage claims AFTER people started bitching about not hitting the claims.

Point being?...That just so happens to be exactly the way most manufacturer are caught lying and persuaded/forced to make good on their claims. And the evidence would point directly to these people actually being correct, so it's not really "bitching" then if it's true...Although I do see some genuine "bitching" occurring on the issue, I will refrain from noting exactly where it primarily appears to be coming from right now.

It actually doesn't matter in the slightest what any one person could achieve for fuel economy, but rather simply the fact that based on their claims vs the mandated testing, the car should get better fuel economy than it currently does...Regardless of who is driving it or what kind of mileage they're currently getting. Sure there are people complaining who are absolutely clueless as how to drive and subsequently why they will probably never break 40mpg in any car regardless of how legitimate the claims are...Of course there are a lot of those people (be it mpg, horsepower, torque, etc) who own every type of car and who are on every forum. But you also seem to assume that everybody with a complaint is one of these people, when in reality many are likely just as knowledgeable and experienced and qualified as yourself to know how to drive and understand what type of fuel economy to expect from their own driving style, environment, and conditions.

And since the fuel economy testing is measured through a controlled testing procedure, then it is really little different than the controlled testing procedures required for making claims on horsepower and torque. Consider that there are also different methods used while measuring horsepower that will yield different results, but only one that is allowed to determine the published/claimed horsepower rating. You are always welcome to under state it, but never to over state it. If the manufacturer claims 500hp and the government mandated testing methods only show 470, it would be totally irrelevant that the car is still "fast" and some drivers as is might be able to drive it faster than other drivers in the same car with 500hp. It only comes down to one simple truth: Either the car meets the published claims as measured through a set of specific controlled testing procedures...Or it doesn't.

I'm sorry, but you may want to go down to legs-r-us to see if they might have something for you to stand on.

My wife is getting around the same mpgs in her '12 Elantra as I got in my '97 Z71 Chevy. Now when I get in it when we take it on a trip I can get it up to around 38 still have yet to break 40. Of course I only drive it once every couple months or so.

I'm not complaining about it because we didn't buy it based on 40 mpgs. I was pulling down mid 20's in the Grand Prix we traded in on it, while my wife was just barely able to get double digit mpg's out of it. No joke. She is that bad.

On topic I'll take any money someone is willing to hand over.

Mileage and reliability was good enough to buy another, her auto is not matching my manual though.

aussiesmg wrote: Mileage and reliability was good enough to buy another, her auto is not matching my manual though.

My experience over the last 50K supports your statement. My best tank has been just under 38mpg on a commute that is 65 miles each way, with over 60 miles of it highways. Of course that was at 65 mph, to over that and mpg drops quickly. Average over the life of it is approx 34.5, and >95% of the miles driven are highway.

As for the money, I'll take it. If someone else doesn't want to participate based on principle, that is their choice. I don't feel like I'm taking advantage of anyone or gaming the system. Hyundai made a "mistake", intentional or not, and are now taking action in response to it.

The test is a comparison tool, not a guarantee, and the expectation is that the testing was performed the same way by each manufacturer. If the manufacturers don't all follow the same test method then the numbers mean even less than they do now.

I bet this prompts further scrutiny on current and future data submitted by the companies.

Joe

I bought a 2013 Kia Soul and I am actually getting better mpg than the sticker states. These aren't exactly aero friendly shapes either. On a 200 mile trip on the interstate I averaged 43 mpg. Granted this was under ideal conditions but but that's not too shabby. Lower 30s around town. Overall I am happy with the results.

The on board computer indicated 45 mpg on the trip, but I filled up immediately before and after then did the math. That's with the bigger 2.0 liter motor and six speed manual too. First oil change and I am switching to synthetic and expect a small improvement with that also.