There was a '94 Justy on CL about a week or two ago. I really considered it, and the price versus mileage was very good, but I didn't think I could get my 6 ft 4 , 235 lbs frame behind the wheel of a 4 door Justy. Heck, getting into my '89 Civic or '92 G20 was a tight squeeze through the door.
integraguy wrote: There was a '94 Justy on CL about a week or two ago. I really considered it, and the price versus mileage was very good, but I didn't think I could get my 6 ft 4 , 235 lbs frame behind the wheel of a 4 door Justy. Heck, getting into my '89 Civic or '92 G20 was a tight squeeze through the door.
You'd be surprised how roomy they can be. Anyway, it's always the big guys that seem to drive the tiny cars, isn't it? Nothing to compensate for, just sensible transportation.
Thanks for all the replies!
I totally understand the 2wd+snow tires idea(BTDT),it does work very well. My problem is 80% of the time there really isn't any snow on the roads(or at least the lanes are clear) and I burn up a set of snow tires in one winter. I did mount Conti DWS on the Fit, but that brings up the 2nd problem - it's not uncommon to encounter pretty big drifts out on the very rural(and often unplowed) roads we drive. The Fit is just too low in the front, and too light to plow through, yet otherwise I'm burning up gas in the pickup when often times I don't really need to be driving it.
Oh, and I'll also add that a WRX is on the short list of ideal winter cars, but most people I know personally seem lucky to get mileage in the low-20's out of them.
petegossett wrote: Oh, and I'll also add that a WRX is on the short list of ideal winter cars, but most people I know personally seem lucky to get mileage in the low-20's out of them.
23ish mpg mixed, and it's mildly worked over and I drive it like the throttle is an on/off switch.
DSM with a low comp piston build and a HUGE turbo. Off the boost (and assuming you aren't t00ned for corn) it'll return 30+. AWD in the winter, 10sec car in the summer. And you can probably get it for like 50$.
mndsm wrote: DSM with a low comp piston build and a HUGE turbo. Off the boost (and assuming you aren't t00ned for corn) it'll return 30+. AWD in the winter, 10sec car in the summer. And you can probably get it for like 50$.
Yeah, but you have to keep the crankshaft on a leash.
Late model 9-3?
mndsm wrote: DSM with a low comp piston build and a HUGE turbo. Off the boost (and assuming you aren't t00ned for corn) it'll return 30+. AWD in the winter, 10sec car in the summer. And you can probably get it for like 50$.
$50, but that bill lets all the hundreds out the back door of your wallet once he is out.
Or, $50 -for a reason.
mndsm wrote: DSM with a low comp piston build and a HUGE turbo. Off the boost (and assuming you aren't t00ned for corn) it'll return 30+. AWD in the winter, 10sec car in the summer. And you can probably get it for like 50$.
Yeah, they can be had for cheap... Maybe even for $50, but that bill lets all the hundreds out the back door of your wallet once he is out.
Or, $50 -for a reason.
So along these lines, what MPG does a 4 door suzuki track/kick get with a 5spd?
Of course, I'd love to diesel swap it later, but in the beginning.
That one I know, the Track/Kicks get up to the low-20's for a 4-door hard top, or maybe a bit more with a 2-door soft top.
mndsm wrote: DSM with a low comp piston build and a HUGE turbo. Off the boost (and assuming you aren't t00ned for corn) it'll return 30+. AWD in the winter, 10sec car in the summer. And you can probably get it for like 50$.
Get what for $50?
I went to www.fueleconomy.gov and in the Power Search section I put the following:
2011 - 2004
4wd or awd
Manual trans
Ranked by mpg the choices seem to be:
Jeep Compass/Patriot
Audi A4
Suzuki SX4
Hyundai Tuscan
Subarus - lots of them
Volvo S40/V50
Ford Escape
VW Passat 4motion
BMW 3 & 5 series with Xdrive
Rav4
Grand Vitara
Honda CRV
Audi TT
Mitsu Outlander
Porsche Carrera4
Chevy Colorado Truck
Honda Element
Jeep Liberty
For all it is claimed that they will get 20mpg combined or more with the highest being 25mpg (not that much difference)
My choices in bold.
If you give up the manual trans the following choices open up:
29 mpg Ford Escape Hybrid
27 mpg New Nissan Juke
26 mpg new legacy w/ cvt
25 mpg Suzuki Kisashi
25 mpg Matrix/Vibe
Look at the SX4, buy a base AWD and get the 6-speed. Higher trim packages only come in CVT, or I'd have replaced my 08 (which replaced my 07) with an '11 ;-)
vote for subaru. Even my 260whp stage 1 wrx gets 24mpg in the D.C. beltway commute (80mph sprint...slam on brakes....sit in stop and go for 20 minutes....back up to 80mph) and I have a heavy foot. On longer highway trips its around 28mpg cruising at 80.
I work weekends at a ski shop and have for years, so on snow days our destination is the mountains...where there is MORE snow. Previously have had several FWD cars that were decent in snow (92 accord coupe, 00 maxima) with Blizzak LM25s. Also have driven RWD cars in snow, with snow tires.
Sure, you CAN get around in either of those. The WRX with Wintersport M3s (and open diffs) is light year ahead. As stated before, it's just point an shoot. No rocking, no worrying about getting traction. Turn the wheel hard over and go through whatever is there out of the tracks. In snow under a foot deep, it is actually superior to our 4Runner on stock A/T tires in every way n the snow. 4Runner is only better if the snow is thick and very deep and the WRX gets high-centered.
So yeah, you can get by and get around in most cases with a FWD or RWD car. But why would you want to when AWD is so much better? It's not like AWD isn't just as good in the dry as FWD and RWD as well....I always see it as a macho thing...."oh, I don't need AWD...I'm such a great driver I can go through 4 feet of snow in my MGB with chains."
Find a 5-year-old 2.5RS impreza....you'll have decent mileage, snow awesomeness, and it's a fun car to drive in spite of so-so power without the turbo.
The problem with AWD is that the rear tires get power too. That means that when the tires are spinning, you lose lateral stability.
Even my 100hp 3200lb car will spin all four tires on snow at road-legal speeds, even with snow tires.
It's actually pretty hilarious to drive it with snows on the front and all-seasons on the back with the diff unlocked - the rear tires spin first and lock with engine braking!
That's the other liability - weight. AWD might drive all four wheels, but all cars have four wheel brakes and two wheel steering. AWD just adds weight that the tires have to deal with. Lemme tell you about the fun of finding glare ice at 80mph...
In reply to jrw1621:
What, so you can't get a Juke with a manual!? I don't want that CVT E36 M3!
There go my dreams. Crushed again. 
Knurled wrote: The problem with AWD is that the rear tires get power too. That means that when the tires are spinning, you lose lateral stability.
but pretty much everything made in the last several years has traction/stability control. Last year with it "off" in the subaru, I could throw the tail out at will. With it "on" I literally could not make the rear end come out without significant purposeful effort. VDC really controls the rear wheels in a spin situation.
Knurled wrote: Even my 100hp 3200lb car will spin all four tires on snow at road-legal speeds, even with snow tires.
Well of course....if you're trying to make it do that.
Knurled wrote: That's the other liability - weight. AWD might drive all four wheels, but all cars have four wheel brakes and two wheel steering. AWD just adds weight that the tires have to deal with. Lemme tell you about the fun of finding glare ice at 80mph...
true, in braking and steering a FWD and AWD car are pretty equal (though with AWD, engine braking is easier). But starting at a light on a hill, or trying to get through deeper stuff is where the AWD comes in handy.
As to weight....in snow you WANT more weight...so that's not a liability. My 3300lb Maxima was FAR superior to my 92 Accord coupe (2800lbs or so?) both FWD and both using the same tires (skinnier on the Accord should have made them better).
Not sure about the weight argument anyhow. My 09 WRX is around 3200lbs. Most mid-compact FWD cars come in around the 3000lb range. Not a huge disparity in my book.
RoosterSauce wrote: In reply to jrw1621: What, so you can't get a Juke with a manual!? I don't want that CVT E36 M3! There go my dreams. Crushed again.
Like the Vibe, the Juke can not be had with both manual and 4wd. The 4wd requires an auto and in the case of the Juke the auto is a cvt.
I've done feet of snow in both RWD and FWD. Easily. Both manual and automatic. Just consult Newton, understand the difference between yaw and trajectory, get good snow tires, and it really just doesn't matter. I prefer RWD for one instance. If you are spinning going uphill in FWD the car will follow the crown of the road right into the ditch. You can still steer a RWD car out of the ditch with the rear wheels spinning. Of course, I've never had ABS, traction control or any of that jazz.
I have to vote Subaru Forester. Outback sport ground clearance (Imprezza with the lift kit) and great head room (I am 6'4") I regularly returned 28 mpg with an auto on a 2001
Oh yeah one other thing, Subs center diff is different from Auto to manual. The manual is a mechanical/viscous diff and the auto is an electronic locker. I haven't driven the two back to back but the rumor is the auto goes in snow better. Plus you can put an interupt switch on your dash and turn it into a FWD for nice weather.
One note about the SX4:
A friend of mine who is am automotive journalist tested one, and though he liked it, said the fuel economy sucked. My neighbour's friend lends her one from time to time and she also says it is very thirsty. Both examples were AWD.
I think turbo kits are available if you want to forget about the fuel economy...
always love an excuse to post snow photos. I spent a couple days during our big snow last winter doing "rescues" in the neighboring neighborhood of CLifton, VA....nothing but hills and curves and people wrecked. Never had the slightest problem going places that other cars were having serious trouble with. Then again, most of those people had A/S tires....and AWD won't help you there!
random pics just for fun. Because it's almost winter again and I'm excited :)
"Subarus don't follow the plows. The plows follow them"
When we got 3 feet overnight, only three people were able to make it into work at the ski shop (lot was plowed after we arrived, roads weren't!)
depth...
Neither of these vehicles got out of this little valley. AFter the Jeep failed to pull the Murano out (didn't budge it an inch), it couldn't get up the hill either, lol. I gave them both rides. This photo is proof that AWD/4WD doensn't help when your tires suck. You can see another car in the ditch in the background....major fail on that corner.
Also gave a ride to the flatbed driver who was there to pull the Murano. The road down was like a sheet of ice and I went up and down it about 5 times - the tow driver wouldn't go down it.
oh, and Nordica (one of the worlds largest skiing companies) gives Subarus to all their representatives (I'm sure they get a big discount!). Because they cannot have an excuse to "not" make it to the mountain on snow days!
Great, now I want a Subaru for some reason... derp.
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