What can the GRM Collective tell me about the ES300?

I've been following Edmunds IL long-term cars and they bought a 1996 Lexus ES300 for a "Debt Free" long term car.

While I'm always looking for a sporty car, I keep going back to cruisers with slushboxes because I feel that they're more practical for me.

So in comes the ES300. It's basically a Camry with a different body and nicer interior. By my interwebz searches, it seems that there is not a whole lot that goes wrong with these cars. Edmunds says that the '97-2000 models have an Oil Gelling issue? (if the oil isn't changed regularly) and also the MAF sensor and Air-Fuel ratio sensors fail.

Is there anything else to know about the '92-2000 models?

In reply to SyntheticBlinkerFluid:

I have never owned an es300 personally, but several other lexi...

You hit the nail on the head es300=camry. I have several friends/family that have owned es300's and they have all been problem free. As long as the car isnt on its like 10th owner you will find they have been more meticulously maintained than their toyota twin brother on the average.

You can't go wrong, although personally I would go gs300.

i owned one for six months. once the omglexus factor wore off, it was just pure boredom. i wouldn't talk you out of one, but it was one of the more soulless appliances i've ever had.

on the "would rather have" front, how about a '97-'03 Regal GS?

My GF had a 98 Avalon for about 4 years when I was doing my Bachelor's Degree. That really was just an ES300 with Toyota badges (difference from the camry being a ~3" extension of the wheelbase, and a fancier leather interior and some other options). It was a totally rock solid car. We replaced the shocks, coil packs and brakes (all normal wear items that were original with 70k+ miles on them) and otherwise it never gave any grief. Always started and ran excellent. It had a great sound system for OEM. The drivetrain is really nice and smooth, and pretty powerful. I absolutely love that V6. It was also an excellent car in the snow - very confidence inspiring and capable (we were living in upstate NY at the time).

One thing to be aware of, I believe the engine is known for having some problems with sludge build up, but that should really only pertain to cars that suffered from irregular oil changes. Just make sure it had some reasonable maintenance schedule and it should be fine.

I will agree with belteshazzar that it's a little boring in terms of handling. I would say it's pretty isolated from the road, which is kinda what luxury sedans are about, right? But, yeah don't expect something like a 5 series, the Lexus is FWD after all.

Oh, one other thing I'll mention, the engines also bolt right into a 2nd gen MR2. So, once you get sick of the Lexus, just buy and MR2 with a blown engine and swap the V6 in!

I had one - will say that it was perhaps the most soulless appliance I've ever owned. Mrs. Oldtin hated it as well. Dead reliable and decent interior weren't enough.

hey oldtin, is your name Daniel too?

I've looked at the LS400, it's more my style, large and boaty. But the V8 that requires premium fuel kind of makes me shy away from it. It doesn't help that it seems like you can't find a good one thats reasonably priced near me. It's either the old guy from the West Subs that was the original owner and wants an arm and a leg for a 15 year old car OR it's someone in the Ghetto that wants $1500, doesn't know the service history and the car looks like its been through hell and back.

I also like the late 90's/early 00's GS300. I really like the straight six (the NA version of the Supra motor IIRC), RWD, and the way it looks. However I don't know much about these cars. I looked on Craigslist last night and there are a lot for sale. Once again, the thing that makes me shy away from this is the requirement for premium fuel. If premium wasn't $4.00 and it didn't have a 20 gallon tank, maybe I would consider.

This leads me to the ES. It doesn't look bad, has a 200+ hp V6, takes 87 octane, and has the same underpinnings as a Camry, so parts aren't horribly expensive. Oh and its reliable. Yeah, it's a Luxury Appliance and it maybe a bore to drive, but can't that usually be fixed?

My collective experience is limited to having driven one once and then I drove a GS400 rite after it (at the dealer). Although the ES300 is a nice car the GS400 was just better.

The ES AND the V6 Camry, BOTH require premium fuel, not just the LS and GS.

If you meant you were looking at Edmunds.com's long term test cars, if you go to the individual model year breakdowns on the various car models, they will tell under "specs and features" which cars require premium and with can get by on regular.

I know the V6 Camry and ES require premium because I've often considered the same (kind of) cars for my semi-regular "commutes" to my folks place 1100 miles away.

FWIW, my sister owned a Subaru in the mid '90s and replaced it with a Camry (she doesn't care how a car drives, just that it's dead reliable), but went back to the Subaru brand after the Toyota was paid off.

You want an IS300, not an ES300

They're decent, but boring. I like the styling in certain colors etc.

They made a unicorn 5spd. That car with a 5spd is quick.. but you'll never find one. 3.0/5spd camry/es300 get snapped up so fast on CL your head will spin.. thats been my observation.

In reply to JohnyHachi6:

coil packs are considered normal wear??

Boring as a toaster, but reliable. Valve cover gasket leak after 100-120k.

belteshazzar wrote: on the "would rather have" front, how about a '97-'03 Regal GS?

Sometimes I wish GRM had the "vomit" emoticon some other forums have.

I'd rather drive the ES any day of the century.

In reply to integraguy:

I did look at the "features and specs" on Edmunds for the ES and Camry. Both say "Regular Unleaded Fuel Required".

Philip Reed just did a write-up on his cross country trip and this is what he said:

"The 18-gallon gas tank allowed 400-miles between gas stations and the fuel efficiency was always in the high 20s on 87 octane."

I had a similar car for a while, a 92 Camry 4 cylinder auto, it was bad in many ways. It rode all mushy, like a big Buick, but didn't absorb bumps like a big buick. It had no steering feel at all. It handled poorly at best, the rear end snapped out in the winter more than once. The auto lacked the ability to start in 2nd, making winter starts interesting, it was sometimes easiest to spin the tires till it grabbed second and then back off the throttle. It also needed that 18 gallon tank, it got 22 mpg at best, not enough engine.

Not much of that is a problem in the V6 Lexus that probably has better suspension and possibly traction control, the problem is the space. For a midsize car, the drivers area was cramped. I'm 6'0" and my head was in the headliner with the seat all the way up and me sitting upright. The seat also didn't go back far enough. The 1998 Mitsubishi Mirage(think Mitsubishi Civic) that replaced it had a far more spacious cockpit.

S_B_F....

I stand corrected, sort of. I went and looked at the specs on Edmunds for a 1997 Camry V6, and you are right...it does say regular fuel. (I didn't check the Lexus because it's basically the same car.) HOWEVER, like many car manufacturers, Toyota changed the V6 in 2001, 2002, or 2003 and if you check the Edmunds.com specs for those years of the Camry V6 you will see that it switched to premium fuel required. This is sort of like how Mazda upgraded the Miata engine someways in 2001-2002 so it needs premium, like the Toyota.

I apologize for the mistake, as I didn't read slowly enough to realize that you would be "repeating" the Edmunds experience and possibly buying a pre 2002 ES.

BTW, here are a few "tidbits" courtesy of Consumers Guide car buying guide:

"Acceleration is more than adequate, and the engine is silent at idle and nearly silent under power. In fact, this car's single greatest asset may be quietness."

"The steering is firmer than before, but there is too little road feel. Similarly, the suspension furnishes adequate handling and more isolation from bumps than a BMW 3-Series or a Mercedes-Benz C-Class, but the ES300 isn't as nimble."

please notice the use of ADEQUATE...and this from Consumer's Guide?

Quotes were in relation to the "new and improved" 1997 model ES300.

integraguy wrote: I stand corrected, sort of. I went and looked at the specs on Edmunds for a 1997 Camry V6, and you are right...it does say regular fuel. (I didn't check the Lexus because it's basically the same car.)

I think the Lexus got the bump in 99 to premium.

The Lexus takes premium and is rated at 210hp/220lb-ft The Camry takes regular and is 194hp/209lb-ft

97 and 98 the Lexus made 200hp.

I was looking at the Lexus and Camry about a year ago. I was leaning toward the Camry for the 4-cyl good mileage option. You can get a very solid car for not that much money. If you are truly looking for a debt-free appliance, I think you will be quite satisfied.

If you can get into a 2002 (even Camry), I would. Other than the fact that it is appliance boring (OH NO!!! HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF!?!), there is absolutely nothing bad I can say about the car. Rock solid reliable and gets crazy mileage from the 4-cyl.

ProDarwin:

if you buy a 4 cylinder Camry, try to avoid nearly any 1990-2001 model as they can feel like a bit of a slug on anything but flat roads with any kind of passenger/cargo load. That was one of the main reasons why my sister traded hers for the Legacy she bought. My father has a Vulcan-engined Taurus and even he thought that her Camry was underpowered.

Japanese Buick LeSabre.

92-93 they were available with a manual. Rarer than hens teeth. the v6 AND the trans are retarded strong..... you can't break them. Probably 3rd in line for the most overbuilt Toyota ever, behind the original LS400 and the wonder-egg that is the Previa. Boring as dishwater, but damn if I don't want one.

About a week ago I passed a ES 250 being pulled by a pickup truck on the outskirts of Gainesville, Fl. I was tempted to follow them and perhaps make an offer. The ES looked like it have just that afternoon been pulled out of a garage or storage building as it had a thick layer of dust on it and the tires looked flat...but weren't.

The 250 was also available with a manual and is at least as rare as a 300 with manual.

In my area, I've found a couple of 300s, but all have high mileage...like 160K or more. Looked on Atlanta's CL and there are slightly better than Jacksonville, but again, high mileages.

I think the same era Acura Legend would be a more enjoyable car to own. And the Olds Intrigue over the Regal is a no-brainer but really everything on that platform is sort of meh.

I am a fan of Hondas and Acuras, but I would avoid the same era Legends. The manual transmissioned models (almost always 2 doors) might be okay, but the automatic is not as "bullet-proof" as Toyota's automatic, and even the V6 needs to be looked after religiously.

That said, there's a 1st gen. Legend coupe (red, with a tan interior) at the Memphis Acura dealer that would be nice to consider...IF I still lived in Memphis. Just not sure I want to drive 750 miles for that car. (I think '90s Legends also used premium gas...before ES's did.)

A better Acura bet is the 1st gen. TL, available as a 5 cylinder or a V6, as far as a reliable Acura cruiser goes...but both engines again require premium.