What Car? Not-a-TDI-Sportwagen Edition

I didn't notice any problems seeing out of the C-Max we test drove. SWMBO is sensitive to such things and it never came up. We found a dealer to take us on a city test drive route today and SWMBO really enjoyed it.

I'd go for a CX-3. Visibility is better than on the regular 3, and a base model CX-3 offers everything you need and more.

Gearheadotaku wrote: Just buy the VW you want, and never go back to the dealer. They can't reprogram it if it's not there.

While it goes completely against my conscience to say it, (nothing to do with mpg, I just hate VW) this is good advice.

Might want to hurry, though. I bet sales will be stopped pretty darn quick.

Went to a Ford dealership and a combined Subaru/Chevy dealership this morning.

C-Max: Forward visibility so bad we didn't bother driving it. Also, the battery installation is almost hilarious. The standard one has a funny thing stacked in the trunk, and the Energi has a goofy, taller thing with an extra sort-of-floor sitting on top of that in the trunk. Not sure our dog could make the jump in.

Focus (1.0L 3): Nice 6-speed, peppy enough at town speeds, but nothing in reserve by freeway speed. Wasn't surprised the 60mph sixth-gear roll on was soft, but kept trying lower gears and still no thrust... Livable, and nice freeway manners outside of lack of power. A bit cramped inside.

Impreza: Our frontrunner. Felt pretty much at home instantly (we did have that 2012 WRX). Good visibility, nice driving manners.

Volt: Again, A-pillars designed to blot out the world. Didn't bother pulling it out of the lot. Wish the 2016 were coming out sooner so I could confirm they didn't radically improve that.

The note on the VW's-not-Exxon thread that VW did this to avoid $400 worth of urea injection has me in a blind rage. I'm torqued at VW for lying, for polluting, but now especially for not giving us the car correctly at a premium I'd have paid in half a heartbeat, and for making me spend bits of the next few weekends at dealerships trying to find the least disappointing second choice.

We discussed on the drive home, hypothetically, buying a used 2014 or 2015, gambling that VW's fix works to some acceptable degree, trying not to worry that we're propping up the used market resale, and not buying the dismal other offerings as our little ineffectual free market vote for "none of the above"...

In reply to Ransom:

As another VW contemplating Leaf lessor, I understand your frustration. Heck I was going to go with the GTI but this diesel scandal has the wife saying absolutely not.

BUT.

How long can you hold out? The '16 golf sportwagon was supposed to be on sale soon or now, and I think that model has urea injection. Could/would you wait the 3-6 months for that to become an option?

Personally it's looking more and more like my road trip-only Volvo will become my DD when it's time to turn in the lease. Unless the new Volt wows me.

irish44j wrote: Buy a gas car that gets 30mpg and costs $5k less than a sportwagon, and call it even.....

I can eke 40mpg real-world in my S40 if I keep my foot out of it and also cruise at 65mph, and Volvo made a V40 variant.

But then we'd be talking about a 12-15 year old car. A 12-15 year old European car with all that entails. Mine's been great but there's always the possibility that I simply got the "good one".

OTOH I don't ever see the kind of VWAG problems that people seem to have on the Internet. So maybe it is an owner problem rather than a car problem. One of my Mazda friends (who works/worked at a dealership) said that the only RX-8 problems he ever saw were on the Internet, therefore being a member of rx8club.com was the source of problems

Ransom wrote: The note on the VW's-not-Exxon thread that VW did this to avoid $400 worth of urea injection has me in a blind rage. I'm torqued at VW for lying, for polluting, but now especially for not giving us the car correctly at a premium I'd have paid in half a heartbeat, and for making me spend bits of the next few weekends at dealerships trying to find the least disappointing second choice.

To be fair to VW, there seems to be a huge contingent of people who don't mind spending $30-40k on a new car, $.30-1.50 more per gallon for the different type of fuel it takes, but whinge and bitch about having to buy a gallon of DEF every few months or so. So VW may simply have been catering to the whiner brigade.

Also, Chevy saved $5 per car on the Corvair while making it "unsafe at any speed". Because that $5 per car would have made it cost more to build than the Nova. They eventually changed the rear suspension radically while also downplaying its existence in advertising, letting it die a lingering death by inattention, while still producing it, as a giant middle finger raised high...

The more expensive fuel thing is not true depending on where you live. In the midwest where gas is cheap, yes diesel costs more. But out west having owned diesels for many years diesel is often cheaper than regular not even premium and rarely if ever is more expensive than premium fuel.

Diesel has been 2.65ish for the past 3 months while regular fuel has not gone below 3.30-3.40 here in Socal and thats cheap for us.

I definitely don't think what VW did was right but I have a hard time believing that with a tune that doesn't smoke a new Direct injection diesel TDI is dirtier than my 2000 mk4 jetta TDI was and we are not all out and pitchforks for every pre urea diesel still on the road.

I imagine there is a fair bit of variance on the amount of stuff that comes out of various cars as emissions, but I would have to rate that as being the least important of the factors to the point of not caring when I am shopping for one. Would you actually buy car A over car B over one having a "PZEV" or equivalent sticker on it? (practicaly zero emissions vehicle)

The Jetti TDI sportswagen is a fantastic car, in fact I don't know anyone who owns one and doesnt like it, and know quite a few families with 2. But a lot of these are also families used to owning BMW's etc so the maintenance probably isn't a bother for them.

Take advantage of the scandal (just like people are doing with VW stock) and buy one before it starts to rebound.

If it was me, I'd hold out for screaming deals on the gas wagons. VW is gonna be in a tough financial bind and will need to move as much metal as they can.

If a gasser sells for $6k less than the (unavailable) TDI theoretically would, that pays for quite a lot of fuel.

Yea, I wonder if gasser VW will come down because of this? I was shopping around a few months ago and they held their value pretty darn good.

Jaynen wrote: I definitely don't think what VW did was right but I have a hard time believing that with a tune that doesn't smoke a new Direct injection diesel TDI is dirtier than my 2000 mk4 jetta TDI was and we are not all out and pitchforks for every pre urea diesel still on the road.

That depends on how good your VW was off cycle. BTW, visible smoke isn't really a good indicator. I had someone try to sell me that thought back in the 90's, showing how clean an engine was with a white terrycloth towel.

But you could easily go to the EPA web page, and find data how your VW did on it's cert test. I look at that data all the time

I imagine there is a fair bit of variance on the amount of stuff that comes out of various cars as emissions, but I would have to rate that as being the least important of the factors to the point of not caring when I am shopping for one. Would you actually buy car A over car B over one having a "PZEV" or equivalent sticker on it? (practicaly zero emissions vehicle)

Some do- Honda has been selling air quality for decades now.

As for the variance- it's not as much as you may think. The range from LEVII to PZEV appears to be a lot, just like Tier2 Bin10 to T2B2, but it's not that much. Not nearly the amount that VW says that they increased the diesel emissions.

And as we go forward- the acceptable range has tightened up quite a bit, and will continue to do so. By 2023, the fleet average for all cars sold in the US will be PZEV. (diesel and gas). That's pretty amazing.

To answer the original question of, "what other than VW Sportwagon?" Have you looked at the new Scion iM? Seems to be the redesigned Toyota Matrix/Corolla wagon. Classed as a Mid-Size car.
Rated at 27/31/36 mpg with 6 speed manual trans on 1.8L engine. Price starting at $19.5k

keep in mind, BMW brought the 3 series wagon back last year. You can buy used examples around what you were looking at teh VW and they had a Diesel version here in the states.

(We are currently looking at the exact same options as you bu tneed to fit two baby seats with a possible third in two years.)

In reply to JohnRW1621 and Mad_Ratel:

Those are both intriguing things! bmwusa.com doesn't show any diesel wagons at any search radius, and I'd be inclined to try to get one with a warranty if going that route... Wonder how carmax handles that...

Thanks!

Re: the recurring theme of cheap VWs: We don't want to buy anything direct from VW. They lied, it sucks, and it should cost them, not just move sales to different models. We were buying the TDI because we liked it and it was efficient in clean (in theory), and were willing to pay a premium in the combined price/cost of operation to get those things. That is, we weren't depending on fuel savings to pay for the TDI premium.

Not that I blame anyone for taking that route. We're in a fortunate spot w/regard to our ability to be choosy, and have chosen to try to vote for what we want, which is ideally as clean and green as possible while also being fun to drive. To my chagrin, that last item is first on the chopping block if we can't have it all. At least I've got my old BMWs and the Ranchero to help me remember what I like about cars

Honda beater until you can try a '16 Volt? The bulk of the effects of it's manufacture have already been felt, and they get pretty nice fuel economy, so it's pretty "green". Sell it in 6 or 8 months for what you bought it for.

I wouldn't discount the new Volt based only on what you've read about visibility. I've never bought a new car, but they appeal to me enough that I might make an exception in a year or two. If you are considering the current Volt, and find it appealing, the new one seems better in basically every category (Better range, fuel economy, power, seats more, cheaper base price, doesn't need premium).

What about a Lexus CT200h? With gas being so cheap I've noticed prices for these and other hybrid/economy cars have dipped (because moar pickup truck). We have one and it consistently knocks down 45 mpg city or highway. We also bring the 70 lb. lab/weim mix with us too (although due to the batteries he is a bit cramped with the higher load floor). He just puts his head out the window (seats folded down) and he doesn't seem to mind.

If you put it in Sport it can actually be fun to drive, with the batteries being so low in the car.

In reply to CobraSpdRH:

If a Lexus is a recommendation, then a Lincoln MKZ Hybrid should as well. It's very much in my best interest to have you get one of those.

CobraSpdRH wrote: What about a Lexus CT200h? With gas being so cheap I've noticed prices for these and other hybrid/economy cars have dipped (because moar pickup truck). We have one and it consistently knocks down 45 mpg city or highway. We also bring the 70 lb. lab/weim mix with us too (although due to the batteries he is a bit cramped with the higher load floor). He just puts his head out the window (seats folded down) and he doesn't seem to mind. If you put it in Sport it can actually be fun to drive, with the batteries being so low in the car.

I concur, I have the Fsport version and it's pretty fun to scoot around town, pretty flat on the highway though. My dog is smaller so he has OK room with the rear seat in place. Give one a test, you may be surprised. PS. I am actively shopping for a VW Golf Sportwagen TSI. There is really nothing comparible unless you pretty much double the price for a BMW 328. If people don't keep buying VWs then they won't be able to fix the car and pay their enormous fines.

If I can find one (possible website glitch, but a quick check of the generic model, not the result of a custom configurator build, showed none in my area), I'll probably look into the Lexus, even though it sort of pains me to do so (Because Lexus. Yes, I know it's irrational). At least it's a bit more distinctive looking than the Prius, and has a nominal sport option. The MKZ I'm afraid is out on the grounds that it only comes sedan-flavored.

Ransom wrote: In reply to JohnRW1621 and Mad_Ratel: Those are both intriguing things! bmwusa.com doesn't show any diesel wagons at any search radius, and I'd be inclined to try to get one with a warranty if going that route... Wonder how carmax handles that... Thanks!

The diesel wagon only comes in 4wd, actually the wagon itself only comes in 4wd. They were new as of the last year or so however. My buddy has one as his wifes car and its the gasser but its very nice and does quite respectably mpg wise

their global avg mpg is 26 with high 30s on highway trips (hand calculated)

In reply to Ransom:Your wagon requirement eliminates the Chevy Volt, one of the cleanest cars available, especially if you rarely use the gas engine.

Also, you could go with the used Mercedes wagon diesel, they didn't cheat.

In reply to Mr_Clutch42:

We're mostly resigned to hatches, and the Volt, er, sort of, is one. The old version even has a little dog-nose-height rear window, which helps. Don't know whether the 2016 has that. The idea of getting something to limp us by 'til the new one comes out has been forwarded, and makes some sense. OTOH, it's an awkward time frame. I really don't want to kick tires on used cars to get us three months. Maybe I should re-raise the possibility of living with the E28.

I don't have hugely high hopes that the Volt's A-pillars will shrink a bunch. And the Impreza kinda felt like home, even if its mileage isn't anything special. I'm also particularly curious to drive the Mazdas and the Mini. Was bummed to find out there's no version of the CX-3 getting a manual. What the heck, Mazda?

In reply to Jaynen:

Those are pretty good numbers! I wonder how the diesel does in the real world...