What car - Race car edition

The cheapest race car thread got me thinking about my local roundy round near me and I figured you guys would be a good source to help pick what would be a competitive car.

I have listed the rules below. The top two guys right now drive the 92-96 Prelude.

3-5~6 drive the previous gen Prelude.

I know they are cheating. Read the last rule: "Don't get caught"

FWD Race Car rules FRONT WHEEL DRIVE RULES: CAR TYPE 1. Any front or rear wheel drive four-cylinder vehicle a. No high-performance vehicles b. Track officials will determine all legal makes and models FUEL CELLS 2. Fuel cells mandatory a. Fuel cells to be installed in trunk area b. Stock fuel tanks may be approved on a case-by case basis c. Fire wall is mandatory GLASS/LIGHTS 3. All glass, lights, light covers to be removed WINDSHILELDS 4. Windshield may be replaced with 1/8-inch Lexan (full windshield) a. No screens; no half-windshields DOORS 5. Doors to be welded closed SUSPENSION 6. Suspension modifications: a. No modification of A-frames or position b. All wheels allowed maximum 3 degrees negative or positive camber c. All cars must maintain minimum 5-inch ground clearance at all times with driver d. NO cutting springs e. NO after market track springs allowed TIRES 7. All tires must be the same size a. Maximum width 7-inches b. 60 series tires allowed c. No aluminum wheels unless track approved d. All wheels (and by fact tires) allowed maximum 3 degrees negative or positive camber - minimum 13-inch; maximum 16-inch wheels (and tires) allowed ENGINE 8. No modifications to the stock engine a. engine must be stock for that vehicle b. Stock valve covers for that make/model c. No rotary engines, no turbo, no Quad-4 d. DOHC Engines allowed but may be subject to additional weight penalty. INTERIOR 9. All interior must be removed a. headliners, carpet, door panels, carpet, any flammable fabric must be removed RACE SEATS 10. Aluminum race seats required a. 5 or 6 point race harness required b. Seat belts must have manufacture date within 3 years date of event BATTERY 11. Battery may be moved into cab area, covered and securely fastened a. Marine battery box recommended MIRRORS 12. No mirrors outside car a. Inside mirror permitted WINDOW NET 13. Functional driver's side window net required FIRE EXTINGUISHER 14. Car must be equipped with on-board fire extinguisher SAFETY 15. Helmets required a. Must meet SA95 or SA2000 requirements b. Drivers SFI suit required HOOD 16. One 12-inch diameter (circular) hole may be cut into hood for safety TRANSMISSION 17. Any transmission - manual or automatic - cannot be modified a. Must have functional reverse TIRES 18. No racing tires a. No speed rated tires max size 195 65 Series b. DOT or non-high performance street legal tires allowed c. Track officials will have complete autonomy regarding tires d. All lug nuts must be in place and firmly secure e. All wheels (and by fact tires) allowed maximum 3 degress negative or positive camber f. Minimum 13-inch; maximum 15-inch tires (and wheels) allowed (Racing wheels with no more than a one inch offset allowed: all wheels must match) CAR NUMBERS 19. Car numbers must be visible for scoring purposes a. Door numbers must be 18-inches in height b. Posted on both doors c. Roof numbers required i. 28-inch minimum height ii. recommended to face reading toward tower/grandstand FENDERS 20. No excessive "gutting" of doors, fenders, hood a. No excess "gutting" for increased tire clearance DOOR BARS 21. Minimum two driver's side door bars required a. Minimum two passenger side door bars required or X-bars required b. Mnimum 1-3/4-inch diameter tubing ROOF BAR 22. Roof loop bar required MUFFLERS 23. Mufflers optional a. Mfflers must remain stock FIREWALLS 24. Firewall between driver compartment and engine compartment required a. Must be completely sealed b. Firewall required between trunk compartment and driver compartment required must be completely sealed BUMPERS 25. Stock bumpers may be reinforced a. Needs to be pre-approved by technical inspector CATCH CAN 27. Overflow catch system (catch can) required NO ANTI-FREEZE FLAT TIRES 28. A vehicle with a flat tire must pit and replace that tire STOCK 29. Any item not specifically covered above must remain 100% stock - no vehicle will be allowed to add lead or any other material for weight displacement purposes 30. Min weight 21 pounds per horse power FUEL 31. Only 3 gallon of gas added after race water can also be added after race 32. Track officials will have discretion to modify these rules as needed including date of event changes 33. 2000 Min Weight on Any Car Don't get caught and have fun

I know do what they are gets you where they are. I don't want to be where they are, I want to be in front of them.

Also please excuse the typos, not me, these are the actual rules.

Neon.

A 91-96 Escort GT would make a good roundy round car if you're pretty liberal with the last rule.

C-class benz? Subaru legacy? I think the 'Ludes have the highest power 4-bangers not in sports cars. You'd have to either grab turns better or pull out the turns faster.

There have been a few neons and they get pummeled by the preludes.

Didn't think about the Mazda motor Escorts.

What would you do that wasn't easily checked?

BTW: No dyno at the track so it is based on stock HP

Port match the stock EVERYTHING. Unless they feel like tearing your engine down, and doing timing checks, they won't know if you hogged out the head and messed with the timing. Also- flashed ECUs. any solution like a Cobb AP that can reprogram the car but appear stock to the naked eye. Obviously if they get an ECU reader they can check this stuff, but something tells me they won't.

Additionally, it said no CUTTING springs. It never said anything about heating them up, having a couple of fatass friends sit on them to compress them to a new, lower height, and jamming hockey pucks in em to increase spring rate.

Didn't see the FWD requirement. In that case probably an Accord? More torque in those...

I find these two rules when combined limit some of the choices.

Rules said: TIRES a. No speed rated tires max size 195 65 Series f. Minimum 13-inch; maximum 15-inch tires (and wheels) allowed (Racing wheels with no more than a one inch offset allowed: all wheels must match) Edit: There are two section on tires and the other says... b. 60 series tires allowed

Must be a car that has brakes that will fit under 15" rims and no bigger than 195-65-15.
Considering the edit...
Does this mean 195-60-15 is allowed?

Typical short track rules.

60 series tires ?

The ZX2SR makes a good track car.

Didn't see anything about swaybars.

single cam vtec

I would love to run a competitive domestic.

just because they are cheap and the locals would love it.

S/R wouldn't be allowed due to performance version prohibited rule

First Gen DOHC Neon ACR? Integra GSR/Type R?

What about a cheap domestic Sundance with 2.5L?
2.5 L I4 - 100 hp (75 kW) and 135 pound-feet (183 N·m) of torque

edited rules with bold due to current suggestions

What tires do they run? If azenis are allowed, find something that will run a 195/60/14. If not, find something that will run the fast tire.

I think the big trick is those stupid preludes and the big motors. IF they're the ones i'm thinking they are, they've got H22's. Find a better motor than that, and find the smallest car it went into, go from there.

How about a 97+ prelude? That with an ecu flash and some stiff aftermarket springs sandblasted and left in the rain for a few days should be good.

if dohc motors are discouraged wouldn't they be more likely to run an f22 'lude?
you could do okay with a GD mazda 626 LX (LX because it has an f2, non turbo of course)
they're pretty decent cars, and mine was at least quicker than my buddies crappy civic lol
and the 5 speed is a pretty decent trans

For springs, start reading about spring rubbers and bump stops. You have the ability to stack the shock shaft full of rubber and create whatever high wheel rate you want. Cover them up with a shock boot and nobody sees what's going one either so you can keep it a secret. The prelude might be winning because it's simply the best car to have within the given rules. That said, 2000 lbs min weight, 21 lbs/hp, look for cars that are rated at about 96 hp stock, that can reach min weight. That will give you a weight/tire advantage over the preludes. Then you just have to make power and hook it up. Easy peasy.

Don't confuse circle track success with just power - it's the ability to maintain speed and get back on the throttle earlier that makes a winning roundy-round racer.

Maybe something with a factory LSD.

corytate wrote: if dohc motors are discouraged wouldn't they be more likely to run an f22 'lude? you could do okay with a GD mazda 626 LX (LX because it has an f2, non turbo of course) they're pretty decent cars, and mine was at least quicker than my buddies crappy civic lol and the 5 speed is a pretty decent trans

You're probably right. I was thinking too late in the prelude run.

mw wrote: Maybe something with a factory LSD.

I assume an LSD would fall under the "can't see it so it's not there" part of the rules. Something the previous owner put in that you had no idea about perhaps. The rules seem very open to these sorts of "unknown" modifications. Just like massive porting on the head, if you've never been inside the engine, how are you supposed to know its not stock?

Early Ford Escort and EXP was ~80HP and ~2000Lbs, right?

Starting at 2,000lbs will not be helpful since the racing weight needs to be 2,000lbs. Taking out glass, interiors, headlights and more will greatly help in getting many cars down to 2,000lbs.
My Sundance suggestion came from looking for small bodies with big 4 cyls. My other suggestion was going to be the 2.4L in the early Nissan Altimas but unfortunately they are DOHC so no-go.