What car: v8 powered, rwd. American, under 2k. Potential to autocross.

I think a fox body or F body are your easy button here (I don't know where "cramit" came from but it's only slightly less obnoxious than "Camero"...so we can stop that any time now).

The thing is...you will have a very hard time finding either in your price range that are worth working with.

I did it the hard way with my Fox Body.  But it sure is a lot of fun to drive.  The 5.0 was a better engine than the 305 in the chevies.  I've always considered the 5.0 in the Mustangs to have been on par with the 5.7L in the Camaros of the era from a performance standpoint.

Somebody mentioned a fairmont but you're not going to find one with a 5.0 (probably) and I paid close to your budget just getting a 6 cylinder/auto car (that I'll eventually do a 5.0 swap with).

Third generation Fbodies were 305-0nly when equipped with a 5 speed.  350 cars are expensive AND automatic (not necessarily bad).  They're also harder to find with a real roof.  The Fbody suspension is generally accepted as  better-from-the-factory (3 link rear being the main difference) than the fox body .  I think this could be the cheapest initial purchase of the 3 I'm addressing here (Fox body, F body, C4).  

I've never had a C4, but they're on the radar and I like the argument made earlier.  Anything you get for under $2K is going to need a LOT of work and money to get where you want it.  A C4 may end up with better fun/$ in the end.  It would be a fun experiment, anyway.  Look at Pete's thread to see one such experiment in progress.

I'll reiterate that I think finding any of these cars as a good starting point in your price range is going to take some exceptional deal-finding abilities.  But it can probably be done.

The advice to copy what others have already done (challenge cars) is sound.

82 Z28 with an eBay blower on the 145 horse 305.  I Auto crossed the hell out of mine.

I think the mustangs will generally be cheapest and most prevalent. Honestly if handling can be fixed somewhat straight forwardly anything over 300hp would be great in my book with a nice fat torque curve. Then I would be thinking about weight and what kind of tires fit under it.

One thing I have always thought was appealing with the mustangs is that maximum motorsports has the range of everything you need kits instead of having to figure out which parts go with what. I haven't seen anything that robust for the 3rd gen F bodies

I also think the SN95 mustangs are almost cheaper than fox bodies at this point and I think are a little better performers

In reply to Jaynen :

That's because they don't need a full suspension re-engineering to work well.

look up Strano's work on the Camaro/Firebird.  There are others as well.

ClemSparks said: (I don't know where "cramit" came from but it's only slightly less obnoxious than "Camero"...so we can stop that any time now).

Never! Look man, you just had to be there when this dude posted about a “cramit” and we all followed suit with jokes about “cramming it”.  

Read this: Cramit

In reply to stroker :

I had a friend who had an 2001 for sale at $2000. After reading up on the car, as bad as I wanted one, Decided not to get it. At the local pull-a-part always has a few around. They also had a 205 wide tire as well. Be a good deal if ypu got a parts car and don't daily drive it.

Stefan said:

In reply to Jaynen :

That's because they don't need a full suspension re-engineering to work well.

look up Strano's work on the Camaro/Firebird.  There are others as well.

Yeah I am very familiar with sam's work it's one of the reasons a 4th gen would be on my list

I came to recommend the 75-79 Novas, 4-doors in particular. They are not expensive cars and share underpinnings with the Camaro of that vintage. Similarly, challenger/charger/magnum is in your price range now.

Don't be afraid of the old stuff too: Mavericks, Hornets, Matadors, Mustang 2s, Monzas, Darts.

And while not meeting your initial conditions, you would get most of the feel of a rwd American V8 but with arguably better handling with a Jag XJS.

Reading this thread I'm starting to wonder if a guy even can buy a race ready car that was perfectly designed in Detroit for daily driving and motorsports out of the box for $2000

At that price point I think what youre going to find, and this has already been stated above, is SN95 will probably be the best at time of purchase. They are at rock bottom for pricing so you can actually still find ok ones for that money. Early fourth gen F-body with the LT1 is kind of the same. Neither are much fun to work on the engine. Aftermarket support is huge though.

C4 has a lot higher performance ceiling, but if you find one at $2k expect a big project. For that money it will be rough.

G body has a lower ceiling, and enough of a following that decent ones are bringing a higher price. Getting it to perform will take a decent investment, but they are probably the nicest to drive on the street IMO.

In reply to ClemSparks :

I want to reiterate Clem's thoughts on the bang for the buck of a C4 as eviidencsed by Pete's project.  I stumbled into my old c4 challenge project on the cheap ($500 for a trashed, non running lots of body damage, specious hacked up peckerwood wiring repairs over 30 years) BUT my direction was far different from Pete's efforts to build a presentable streEtable car.

There are $500-$1500 c4 out there but they will require a lot of work and nickle and dime stuff will cause the price of Poker to go way up.  In Petes case he will end up with a nice reliable classic slightly under challenge budget.  But keep in mind...Challenge budget rules exclude rebuilding things like brake systems which can run $500 to $1000. And performance rubber ain't cheap.

I almost think if you want a decent c4 you're better off starting with a decent, clean drive able model in the $3-5K range.

That being said, you start with a cheap old car that comes with forged aluminum suspension components, aluminum driveshaft,  IRS, LSD, r&p steering, 4 wheel disc brakes , composite (leaf) springs,  close to 3,000 lbs, etc.  Don't forget these old cars stunned the automotive press when it was able to pull close to 1 g on the skippad.  Still a performance bargain in the big scheme of things.  Even if you  have to start out at the $3-5K range for a decent one.

I wasn't serious about the Diplomat.  

I do think an SN95 could be the answer but you'll probably end up touching every single nut and bolt on the car at this point.  I'm not going to write out a good recipe for this; I had one of these cars not that long ago and didn't really start down the rabbit hole as I didn't really like the car enough to want to do so.  Basically my answer would be "read everything then call Maximum Motorsports, talk to those guys, and get ready to spend the purchase price of the car to really fix the car".

Yeah I think the real question for me is if you are going to spend 2500 bucks on the everything road and track maximum motorsports package, 1800 on the complete UMI shock package for the 4th gen camaro, or something else how different is what you end up with?

Spend 3-5k on a nicer C4, or buy the 2500 dollar mustang and add the 2500 dollars worth of good suspension bits

For me goals would be CAM class autocrossing and reliable and hopefully fairly quick HPDE car at around 5-6k total. Thats about what my miata was at after purchase (2400 purchase, 600 roll bar, and a couple years later about 3k in suspension/wheels tires/swaybars etc)

My $.02 worth.  I looked around for about a year and a half before I found mine for $1000.00(1991 firebird).  WS6 suspension pieces can be had for around $200.00.New subframe connectors are around $180.00 if I remember correctly.  A decent set of shocks and they will handle reasonably well. If you want good power cheap swap in a well built 350 with a carb is the cheapest easiest answer. To get a good car(any car) for 2k it is time patience and being ready to pounce on the ones that turn up.

jj said:V8s are fun, even with only 200hp :)  

I have no idea why you're right but you are. If anything I think my sister's '97 GT is more fun because it's under powered.  It makes V8 noises while being slow enough to use plenty of throttle and not get in trouble.

Chadeux said:

jj said:V8s are fun, even with only 200hp :)  

I have no idea why you're right but you are. If anything I think my sister's '97 GT is more fun because it's under powered.  It makes V8 noises while being slow enough to use plenty of throttle and not get in trouble.

Why is an underpowered v8 fun?  One word:  TORQUE.  Even a 240 hp c4 L98 corvette is a hoot because it has around 350 ft lbs of torque at a whopping 2900 rpms.

Remember...hp is how fast you hit somethin; torque is how far you drag it.

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :

and it's liekly making 300ftlbs from idle to redline as well. 

G-body is a good start, but you have to love them.  They are a relatively desirable car which drives up prices for what you get.  The suspension needs money.  Period.  Short spindles means awful camber curves and tons of understeer.  Engines are all wheezy.  Even if you pony up the big bucks for a hot version, the V8s only made 170 hp at best.

F-body is kinda the same for me.  They are limp noodles in stock form  Subframes bolted to a flexy unibody with big rubber biscuits.  Yuck.  At least you're starting with decent power.  The big problem I see there is the lack of decent/affordable rear axles.  The 7.5/7.625 rear under there has been known to explode with nothing other than a swap to sticky tires.  Ask me how I know.  I put Toyo 888s on a 4th Gen with a T56 and blew the carrier right out of the cover on a 1-2 shift

Y-body is a great idea

B-body will be fun.  My Impala SS responded very nicely to lowering springs, bilsteins, and bushing upgrades.  Many SS guys have done a panhard bar and reported good results and its cheaper than upgrading the wimpy trailing arms.  But nothing will make up for the heavy weight.

Fox body can be nice especially if you think outside the box.  Fox body wasn't just Mustangs, ya know.  Tbird, Cougar, Mark, Continental, Monarch, Grenada, Fairmont, Zephyr...

I'll even go one more step.  The older Ford Maverick wasn't a bad platform.  The front suspension needs help, but its a modified Mustang 2 design so the parts are out there.  It weighs the same as an STI but came from the factory with an optional 302 and a very adequate 8" rear.  They also sell for pennies compared to Mustang 2s.  I had a running, driving 74 Mav that I bought for $500 and sold for the same.

If I were doing this exact thing, though, I'd probably be looking for a C4.  Go LT1 though.  Much easier to make power because the heads are a far better than chevy offered in the SBC years.  The aluminum LT1 heads flowed about 20% more than the best TPI head.  The Iron LT1 heads are even better, albeit at a weight penalty.  LT1 also means T56 instead of the ZF box.  Not that the ZF6-speed was bad, its just hard to find parts for it if something explodes.

In reply to curtis73 :

Regarding c4:  LT1 with 6 speeds are getting pricey.  Generally $6000 and up for a nice driver.  But you can do  what I've had to do since my L98 motor is now junk.  I bought wrecked but running 99 truck with 5.7 vortech for $450..  255 hp 330 torque but should be 280-300+ with carb conversion and headers. Another 25-30hp with mild custom ground $225 cam. Straight bolt in.  

Yeah seems very easy to rob other chevys especially trucks for motors. Not sure about what you can steal from for mustangs besides explorers?

I'd be quite happy with a nice 250-300 wheel especially while working on learning the handling of a car. It would still be a lot more than me 100hp NA miata was. The main bummer? If owning a miata can be a bummer was that tinkering with the motor would not really do much with relatively modified 1.8's making maybe 130 wheel without forced induction

In reply to curtis73 :

I agree with your assessment. There was a guy in my Impala SS club that was always running up front, and occasionally winning locally in SM with his Impala. Lots of potential there.

I still say for the OP's purpose a C4 Vette is the Droid he's looking for. 

Personally, I like the idea of a G-body of the Pontiac persuasion. Around 450hp with around 400ftlbs with some good suspenders under it. Maybe one day.

curtis73 said:

If I were doing this exact thing, though, I'd probably be looking for a C4.  Go LT1 though.  Much easier to make power because the heads are a far better than chevy offered in the SBC years.  The aluminum LT1 heads flowed about 20% more than the best TPI head.  The Iron LT1 heads are even better, albeit at a weight penalty.  LT1 also means T56 instead of the ZF box.  Not that the ZF6-speed was bad, its just hard to find parts for it if something explodes.

Not to correct Curtis, but all manual C4's 89-96 were ZF6's.   The T56 only came to the Vette in the C5 model, by which time it was part of a rear-mounted transaxle assembly.    

stroker said:

What about a Lincoln LS?

This is a suggestion that bears more thought. Newer suspension design than anything else previously discussed. Maybe suspension upgrade path from Jag S Type R?

szeis4cookie said:

stroker said:

What about a Lincoln LS?

This is a suggestion that bears more thought. Newer suspension design than anything else previously discussed. Maybe suspension upgrade path from Jag S Type R?

True dat!  Cerainly would be unique and probably a lot of fun spanking some Fbody/mustang ass on AX occasionally.

That being said I get the feeling OP was looking for something a little simpler with aftermarket bolt on support.  We've had fun with these bench racing budget builds.  But back to reality.

Atleast with regard to C4s you ain't gonna build a $2k hpde car.  Or even a decent CAM S autocrosser.  But if your goal is to be locally competitive in a recognized class you probably could build a BS C4 relatively close to $3k or so.  Start with automatic 87-89 ...get it running decent, decent shocks, fresh suspension bushings, muffler eliminators, decent rubber, alignment,  learn left foot braking.  PAX favorable.  Suprised some folks.

CAM S? On a limited budget? No way.  Even in our little region you'll be battling budget built (<$20,000) FF Cobras, built c5 and c6s, etc. Amazing what people lay out to play for a few minutes in a parking lot.

My fox body is a $1500 wonder, that now has maybe double that into brakes and suspension.  It's about to get another purchase price into the motor.

It will go and turn better and better each year that I own it.  It's a DD, kid hauler, HPDE car that I enjoy wrenching on.

It will never be as good as my E30 M3  was, but I can add 100hp for $1000 vs Return to stock plus 15hp for $10,000.  

The corvette is a better base to build on if you just want a track rat, for a multipurpose car my vote if some muscle pony car.

The beauty of CAM-S rules means that if someone wants to take it serious they can spend way too much money. But at least its better than adding one modded and being pax'd into oblivion. You could probably phrase it as what budget american v8 can I run that is a fun HPDE car that can still take advantage of CAM's softball PAX