What car?: Wagons vs Hatches edition

Well, the time has finally come for me to pull the trigger. After all the hemmin' and hawing, shuckin' and jiving, I'm going to get a third car for the stable. We have two fun cars, so this one is allowed to be a bit more of an appliance. Of course, I'd prefer something a least a little bit fun and there's a few more criteria.

• It needs to fit our 100lb German shepherd, so I'm exclusively looking at wagons and hatchbacks. A wagon would be somewhat preferred, since our other two cars are coupes. That said, he fits in our Integra hatchback with the back seats folded down, so anything around that size should work. The wagons will have more room, but hatches almost always have better fuel economy, so there's that trade-off.

• Must have an airbag and functioning air conditioning. My commute is much longer and frankly more dangerous than it ever has been. I need something that'll get to me to my office job without changing my shirt before I walk in (it's above 100 deg right now in Atlanta). Also, I've had facial reconstructive surgery from previous accident, so I'm pretty set on the whole airbag thing. I just don't trust the drivers around me.

• Fairly reliable/not a project car. I want to do a little fiddling as possible. I'm willing to do normal maintenance items and even moderate repairs if I can plan for them (like BMW cooling system). I don't want a car where I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. So, no Audis or VWs.

• Decent to great mileage. As I mentioned earlier, our commutes are somewhat long. I realize there is a trade-off in size vs mpg though, so I'm not excluding cars because they only average 24-26 mpg.

• Manual transmission

• Price: $3-4K

So, here are the top contenders. Feel free to weigh-in on any potential issues or driving impressions.

• Subaru Legacy GT wagon. I found this 98 Legacy, which looks like a strong contender - Craigslist Legacy. My wife really loves Subarus and we've wanted to own one for a while. Mileage is not a strong suit though.

• Subaru Impreza TS wagon. I would prefer this over the Legacy for handling and mileage, but they're hens teeth around Georgia. None available at the moment.

• Mazda Protege5 wagon. Kinda seems like a good all-arounder without being excellent in any one area. Good mileage, but with more space than a hatchback. Handles decently, kinda slow, but I think they have a good reliability history? Can anyone comment? I'm waiting to hear more info back about this one - Craigslist Protege5

• BMW 318ti. Probably the one I really want, but perhaps the most "issues". I'll have to test-fit the dog, but I'm thinking if he can fit in a 2-door integra then he can fit in the back of one of these with the seats folded down/trunk-cover removed. Great mileage and I'm guessing it'll be the most fun to drive out of my options. Hard to find a decent mileage version though. I understand E36s are fairly solid cars, but I'm a little wary of getting a 15+ yr old BMW. I'm willing to do the cooling system overhaul, at the same time I don't want a Euro nicke-n-dime car. I'm pretty tempted by this 318ti sport, but the 200K on the clock does nothing for my faith. WWGRMD?

• 92-95 Civic hatchback (EG). I had an Si through college and loved that car. It's nearly impossible to find an unmolested one now though. Kinda low on the pole for that reason. I do not want some ricer's hacked up example of their fevered dreams.

Runner-ups.

• Saab 9-5 or 9-3. These seem incredibly cheap for what you get, but that has me a little wary. I've heard certain parts are hard to get now due to the bankruptcy debacle. Also, reliability seems fair-to-middle'n.

• Volvo 850/V70 wagons. Not impossible to find in a manual, but again I'm a little concerned about maintenance costs. I drove a friend's turbo and it was already having trouble shifting and getting boost.

Well, thanks for reading my long-ish post. What say you GRM?

I like the protege. They are fun cars. Subaru's generally suck whenever you take account MPG's

My daughter has a TS. With the back seat down, it will haul 4 race tires, the jack, the EZ-up, a couple chairs, and the parts bin. No chance of that with the seat up, though, so if you have the dog in the back it will be a 2-seater.

Fuel economy is not its strong suit. AWD is nice but do you really need it in Atlanta? Probably not worth the 10-20% hit you take in the fuel economy department. Frankly, if I was looking at the TS and needed a utility car, I'd just get a Forester which has a bazillion times as much room in back, and more headroom to go with it.

Mazda 6 v6 wagon is my holy grail

We're kinda leaning towards the Protege5 as the smart option, but I'll have to see if I can find a decent one with a manual. I've only seen two so far.

Duke, thanks for reminding me that the Forester was an option. We talked about them before, but decided we would rather have an Impreza. I like the idea better now and considering what's available I think we'll put them back on the table.

As for AWD, you are correct we do not need it. Honestly, it would just be cool to have and we like Subarus. Perhaps it will be a redeeming quality of the appliance car. Here is where I go into rationalization mode.

I also like the Mazda6 wagons, but they aren't very common either. I've only seen a single 4cyl auto in gold (ewww) for sale lately.

I wish we could get nice rust-free wagons like either of those up here in Michigan. I'd love to have that legacy.

Since you say you have a 100lb German Shepherd, I'll give some of my experience. As the dog ages, it will find climging into the vehicle more difficult. Fact of like with German Shepherds.

From experience, the lowest possible entry height makes it easier for the dog, and for your back. Our aging shepherd reached the point where she could get her front paws up, but we had to help her the rest of the way.

Easy enough for me, but the wife was almost outweighed by the dog and it was a struggle for both of them. That was with a Ford Explorer and a entry height of less than thirty inches above the ground.

Your choice of a hatchback or wagon may really only be the choice of which wagon has the lowest floor height. The up and over of a hatch may be easy for an agile younger dog to handle, but a dog that's getting older is going to have trouble with getting over that obstacle.

Focus ZX3? It seems to meet the criteria, but its a focus. Or just go for the ewww factor and get an Aztek.

Of the ones you listed, I like the Protege 5. Ive seen a couple around here that I wouldnt mind owning.

In reply to vern2point3: Good point - our gsd is already 9, but thankfully doing great. I'll definitely keep that in-mind.

I was actually wondering if someone would mention the Focus - it has been on my radar, but I just don't know if I can deal with the interior design on a day to day basis (I know, picky). Are the driving dynamics significantly better than the others mentioned? If not, I think I'd rather own the Protege5 if I'm going with a newer econobox.

One of my co-workers has a Protege 5. It's held up great and (after the Focus, but I'll admit the Focus's interior is a bit weird) was the first thing that came to mind.

An unmolested '92-'95 Civic hatch might meet the requirements, but these days even ones that look like clean low mileage ones are more likely to mean the previous owner hid the damage than anything else. Had Once, Not Doing it Again when it comes to those cars. Just too hard to find an example that hasn't been beaten on or driven into the ground, particularly in Atlanta. Unless you really luck out. An Accord wagon, though, might work out - while the mileage and past wrecks are still a concern, they're less likely to have been riced.

I like the Accord wagons of the nineties, but did they make any with manuals? I haven't seen one yet in my searches.

I haven't heard much about the Saabs, but I found this relatively low mileage 9-3 that looks decent. The rear seats fold down in these, right?

02 Saab 9-3

Also, here's a 9-5 wagon that probably better suits our needs, space-wise.

01 Saab 9-5

1995 Saturn SW2 + H&R Race Springs

One of the later ones would be okay too, but I like the plastic roof and more the square styling. It would be more fun than any of the other cars you've listed except for a EG Hatch with a better than stock suspension.

Honda hatch, hands down. Now finding a Honda hatch that isn't rusted, driven into the ground, poorly modified and generally ready for the scrap heap is almost impossible. Unfortunately, at least here in Michigan, you have a better chance of finding the discarded winning lotto ticket that would make this whole exercise unnecessary. But if you find one and beat all the ricers to the punch, buy it for goodness sake. If you don't like it, I'll happily take it off your hands.

I'd say a volvo 850 wagon, perhaps....

[cue photo of 850 racing wagon up on two wheels]

I quite like the Saab 9-3 & 9-5 myself. Parts availability is no big deal for anything older than 2007. The two you posted both have the venerable Saab B235, which is a fantastic motor (but sensitive to oil quality & changes - many have succumbed to sludge). You can make huge power pretty cheap and the aftermarket is not that bad. T7Suite means you can basically hook a laptop up to your ECU and go nuts with tuning in exchange for a few hours of work...I DD'ed a 9-5 turbo for six months (bought for $1200, fixed a few things, sold for $2650) and I know there are a few other Saab owners on here.

From personal experience, I fear any car in that price range is likely to be a project on some level.

I wouldn't consider a volvo 850 or a Saab to be any less prone to issues than any Audi, BMW or VW...

I like the EG hatch, Focus, WRX/Legacy/Forester, and saturn wagon suggestions. I was personally looking for exactly "this" for my next daily driver; Hatch/wagon for my large dogs, good mpg for the daily grind, a little fun for me.

What about the Toyota Matrix XRS / Pontiac Vibe GT? More interior room than a wrx wagon (motortrend), ~2,700 lbs, 2zz motor as in lotus elise, (1.8l @ 180hp), and good mpg. It is basically a celica wagon being about 300 lbs heavier and pulling .83g stock (vs .86g for the celica).

The only downsides to these two are premium gas and fwd. If you don't mind that then I think it would be a lot of fun.

I did pass on all of the above and went for the Corolla Hatch instead.

Our Impreza rallycross wagon seems to answer all of your questions.

Ford Focus or Saab 9-3 imo

As nice as the Saab wagons are, I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole right now. The parts issue is such a huge unknown. New parts? Extremely limited. Used parts? Are in high demand already, and really popular stuff like headlights will be harder to get and cost dramatically more. The cars aren't that much better than some of the others to endure all the potential problems. There's a 9-3 sitting at one of my shops that hit a deer (not my claim, thankfully) that has already been parked there for 3 months because they can't get parts.

Protege 5 is a fantastic car. Brother-in-law had one from new, never did a thing to it.

We loved our Forester as a dog hauler (and I still have the dog gate for a 98-02 if you need one!). We'd have bought another but liked the Jeep Patriot better, a vehicle not yet available in your price range.

A BMW in your price is going to be uber high miles and will need repairs. I looked at these lustfully but couldn't justify the price and the regular window regulator replacements for a car my wife would be driving and complaining about.

The Focus is a good dog hauler but is, sadly, a cheaply built car that left me very unimpressed.

Volvo wagons are very effective dog haulers but parts are expensive and most I looked at were turbos, requiring premium fuel which removed them from contention.

A 318ti? Ewwww.

The only Honda I'd bother with is an Accord wagon, but they are all automatics. If I'm going that route, I'd get a Mazda 6. They are hard to find, but they are darn nice cars.

Saturn wagons will haul dogs but, well, they're Saturns. Ugly, uninspiring and we're finding parts are being discontinued.

Matthew Huizing wrote: 1995 Saturn SW2 + H&R Race Springs

Hmmm, dunno if the wife will be happy with that (we'll share this car), but I'll check it out if one pops up. Also, I don't think we're looking to mod this car with a stiff suspension. Part of the problem with dd'ing the MR2 is that it is too stiffly sprung for my downtown ATL commute.

kazoospec wrote: Honda hatch, hands down.

If I could find a halfway decent, non-suspect example I'd be elated! I really miss my 93 Si something fierce. I started getting excited when I found a 92 Si that had the original motor with reasonable mileage, until I realized I was looking straight past the black painted hood and slammed suspension. At least it didn't have NAAAWZ Yo.

dj wrote: What about the Toyota Matrix XRS / Pontiac Vibe GT?

I haven't seen those in my price range, but I haven't searched for them in particular. Sometimes they aren't listed under "wagons" or "hatchbacks" so I'll do a more specific search. FWD doesn't bother me one bit, premium will bother the wife a bit.

David S. Wallens wrote: Our Impreza rallycross wagon seems to answer all of your questions.

Perfect! How much to you want and when should I take delivery?

ddavidv wrote: As nice as the Saab wagons are, I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole right now. The parts issue is such a huge unknown....

This is what I was afraid of.

ddavidv wrote: Protege 5 is a fantastic car. Brother-in-law had one from new, never did a thing to it.

Good to hear.

ddavidv wrote: We loved our Forester as a dog hauler (and I still have the dog gate for a 98-02 if you need one!).

The Forester is clawing it's way to the top of the list and they aren't uncommon so I might take you up on that gate.

ddavidv wrote: A BMW in your price is going to be uber high miles and will need repairs. I looked at these lustfully but couldn't justify the price and the regular window regulator replacements for a car my wife would be driving and complaining about.

Yeah, unless a really clean low miles example pops up I sadly doubt we'll have one anytime soon.

ddavidv wrote: The Focus is a good dog hauler but is, sadly, a cheaply built car that left me very unimpressed.

That's my problem with the car. They seem to have a good engine and chassis, but all the interface bits are really cheap and horribly designed.

ddavidv wrote: A 318ti? Ewwww.

Hey! I'm a huge mk1 mr2 fan, so obviously I really like dorky looking cars.

Matt B wrote: I also like the Mazda6 wagons, but they aren't very common either. I've only seen a single 4cyl auto in gold (ewww) for sale lately.

FYI the wagon only ever came in a V6 as far as I know. Javelin could tell you for sure, but I have never seen a 4 cylinder wagon, and don't think they exist. My sister had a Mazda6 hatchback which is sort of rare as well, but was basically the same as the sedan, but had a hatch in the rear. Hers was a 4 cylinder 6 speed(maybe 5 speed). You can tell them apart from the sedans by looking for a rear wiper. If it has the wiper it is a hatchback. Super rae anyway, and the wagon is a better option. You could get the wagon in a manual as well.