I'd love to see a test on this. Snow & Ice separately.
I've driven on old snow tires and they may not have been 100%, but they were light years ahead of any all season. I didn't suspect their grip had been reduced by aging in any way.
I'd love to see a test on this. Snow & Ice separately.
I've driven on old snow tires and they may not have been 100%, but they were light years ahead of any all season. I didn't suspect their grip had been reduced by aging in any way.
Snrub said:Here's a quote from 10 year old C&D article: "Michelin says tread design is responsible for roughly two-thirds of a tire’s traction capability in snow, while one-third is dictated by the makeup of the rubber compound. On ice, it’s the opposite, with the compound accounting for the majority of traction."
I had a set of budget winters with big voids and they were surprisingly good at accelerating and stopping in deeper snow. They weren't terrible, but they weren't great in any other way.
That's pretty interesting. And I suppose one's expected situation is going to be a factor.
Locally, the roads will either be hardpacked snow, which is similar to ice in that you're trying to grip a smooth(ish) surface rather than rototill your way around, or scraped bare and then the day's melt freezes overnight. Or, more commonly, hardpack that gets polished to ice at stop signs because of everyone stopping and starting there. Deep snow is rare, as snowfall rapid enough to overcome the plow trucks' valiant efforts is also rare.
That said, I found that the compound-dependent Blizzaks work just fine on about 6" of snow at 85-90mph, speed limited not by conditions, but horsepower, because it took WOT in 3rd gear to be able to run through the snow that fast. (Yes, it was lots of fun. No, I can't do that anymore, there's way too many people around nowadays and the roads are never empty like that anymore)
ProDarwin said:I'd love to see a test on this. Snow & Ice separately.
I've driven on old snow tires and they may not have been 100%, but they were light years ahead of any all season. I didn't suspect their grip had been reduced by aging in any way.
That also depends a lot on how they are stored and the operating conditions. The ones that I am going to be throwing away are 2 years old, have 6-7/32 of tread, and they "glass over" like UHP summer tires when it gets below 50 degrees and it is wet. In short, I cooked them by driving on them when it is over 45-50 degrees. And, at least in this climate, that is unavoidable because it sometimes hits 50-60 midwinter for a few days. Then drops back down and that cold Canadian air picks up a crapton of moisture off the lake and dumps it everywhere. (This leads to snowfall that feels like shoveling wet cement)
Knurled. said:That's pretty interesting. And I suppose one's expected situation is going to be a factor.
Locally, the roads will either be hardpacked snow, which is similar to ice in that you're trying to grip a smooth(ish) surface rather than rototill your way around, or scraped bare and then the day's melt freezes overnight. Or, more commonly, hardpack that gets polished to ice at stop signs because of everyone stopping and starting there. Deep snow is rare, as snowfall rapid enough to overcome the plow trucks' valiant efforts is also rare.
That said, I found that the compound-dependent Blizzaks work just fine on about 6" of snow at 85-90mph, speed limited not by conditions, but horsepower, because it took WOT in 3rd gear to be able to run through the snow that fast. (Yes, it was lots of fun. No, I can't do that anymore, there's way too many people around nowadays and the roads are never empty like that anymore)
I agree and what you've said makes sense. I'm on the other side of the lake and we receive a real mix of weather and conditions through the winter (mostly from another lake). 90mph in 6" is pretty nuts! :D I've done maybe 70mph in something like that. When I had the FC RX-7, driving on rural roads sometime you'd encounter a snow drift which required you to accelerate prior to hitting it, so you would avoid becoming stuck. The windshield would go white for a minute as the car plowed through.
In reply to Snrub:
One of my friends totalled his ZX2 by hitting a snowdrift on a 2 lane road at 55-60mph. (He was on Winterforces, if it matters, which it really doesn't). True to meme, the car collided with a telephone pole smack on the PASSENGER side B-pillar. Pillar, roof, and floor were comprehensively mangled, and his then-fiancee couldn't raise her arms over her head for a month or two but no broken bones, which is somewhat miraculous given the damage to the car.
I bought the sumitomo ice edge for my BMW X5 last winter as I was going to sell it this summer. I got them in 235/65/18 for 360 delivered. I was impressed with them for a cheap snow tire. I liked them enough to buy a set for my 16 yo son for his Saab.
My sister in law had a set of Black Lion snow tires which were terrible. The siping was incredibly uneven in depth, they wore out fairly quickly and didn't give a lot of grip.
Typical conditions in your area should dictate what type of winter tire you shop for, as a snow tire and an ice tire are quite different things and tread depth (wear) will severely impact snow grip.
I've ended up looking for a set in 16" myself, the Federals in the first post are $250 shipped for a set in that size, or these Hankooks are pretty cheap too at $290 shipped for the set. Debating how cheap to go with it.
You're asking about cheap snow tires and you're bringing us highfallutin big brand names like Federal and Sumitomo? You want cheap you go to simpletire, throw your size in, and see what kind of D-list Chinese talent you get back. A couple years back I picked up a set of 15" Sunny SN3860 for my Mazda P5 at the time. I've since run the setup on my LS400 (hilariously small) and on my Forte. For $200 shipped they're definitely cheap, and to my delight happened to be both round and hold air. They've been awesome in what little snow we get these days in Cincinnati.
Roll the dice. Anything's better than allseasons.
In reply to ebelements :
Surprisingly this is where I started. Apparently the 18" low profile immediately put me into highfallutin. I am admittely afraid of no name chinese tires.
In reply to 84FSP :
I bought the Coopers because they were literally the cheapest tires I could find in a 225/45-18, even on a Google Shopping search that normally gives all sorts of amusingly Engrish named offbrand tires.
Tire Rack had the WS80s on closeout. Mine were 2018 date code. They have a set of four 245/50s at $178 each with free shipping, you will not regret it if you buy them.
In reply to 84FSP :
That's a good fear.
So they arrived amd look, just like snow tires. Will get them on in the next couple weeks and report back when there is some winter actually happening.
They look the part at least!
Awaiting the report with interest.
Tires are mounted and awaiting Cincinnati's first white death of the season. She looks weird with 4 of the oem size tires on her rather than the 275's that I shoe horn on. Looking forward to a test drive in the am.
RedGT said:I've ended up looking for a set in 16" myself, the Federals in the first post are $250 shipped for a set in that size, or these Hankooks are pretty cheap too at $290 shipped for the set. Debating how cheap to go with it.
Last thursday I replaced the worn out Blizzaks on my FRS with a set of Hankook iCept Evo 2s, and when i left work today there was about 4 inches of snow on my car. The Hankooks were great in the unplowed part of the parking lot i played in for a little bit, and on the drive home on the sloppy freeways around Detroit they were great. It was only one 30 mile drive so don't put too much stock in my review, but so far I`m really happy with them.
Sadly just cold and a bit icy this morning rather than snow. Overall was pleased with the fact that they felt like real tires rather than hockey pucks.
Cactus said:Nokian makes some all season tires that I'd pit against cheap winter tires. Hell, I'd compare them with expensive snow tires too.
They are very much the exception though.
Id put Nokian up there as one of the best. They have a northern US testing facility that is one of the best in the country. They are also the choice tire overseas in a lot of countries that get extreme snowfall.
My wife runs around on Yokohama Iceguard IG51's and they are a solid choice also. They have lasted 4 winters so far and still have plenty of tread. The tread depth at new was astounding and even after 4 years i believe we could get another 3-4 years before they need to be replaced.
In reply to Schmidlap :
(1) where in Detroit area? Got skills? Wanna help build a mid-engined V8 Corvair?
(2) keep us updated on the iCept Evos performance this winter. This is the last winter for the WS70s on my 525xi.
In reply to ProDarwin :
I work in a dealership in Ohio and have used and sold a lot of all type tires. I myself bought Sumitomo snow tires this year. Some people consider Sumitomo to be an off-brand product but they need to do some homework. While not a household name the company has done tires with Goodyear and Dunlop in various markets. They also produce Falken, Apollo, Ohtsu brand tires and some private labels. They are the 6th largest tire producer and rubber product supplier in the world. They presently have US Tonawanda NY facilities producing Dunlop and Falken tires in the US. So while people can be ignorant to their existence they have been around for a century.
This year I chose Sumitomo Ice Edge because of tire hunting late in the fall and selections were down. My choice was determined by reviews from Canadian tire shops and websites. I've driven them two weeks now on limited snow , a little ice and in several days of rain. The mold release is finally starting to wear away and I can say these are truly a bargain. They handle decent, stop well and take off as well as most good to excellent ranked snow tires. I'm looking forward to snow and ice covered roads now instead of fearing my drives to work on all-seasons. I'm betting on 3-4 years of using them before I have to shop for cold weather tires again.
Knurled. said:Compound is everything, though. Hockey pucks with sipes will still grip like hockey pucks.
That's why I am a fan of throwing them away after one or two seasons. After that they are no better than all-season tires because the rubber has dried out. Winter tires, at least ones that work well, are NOT made with long-life rubber. That is why they don't even bother with treadwear ratings - they aren't intended to work well for a long time.
I haven't found most winters to go hockey puck that fast. Season 2 on WS80s doesn't feel meaningfully different than the first season. I did an (almost) back to back comparison with the Jeep a couple years ago on Hakka R2s. 4.5 year old, 4/32 tread depth ones vs 6 month old un-used ones (age by production date). The new ones felt mushier due to more tread depth and dug through deeper snow better, but on both dry and wet pavement as well as polished hardpack, there was a lot less difference than I was expecting to find. I am always careful to keep speed down and be very gentle on those few warm winter days though. Push either tire too hard on a warm, dry day (or run too fast on the highway) and you'll smell the tires when you park. That's definitely not good for the compound's lifespan.
As far as choosing snow tires go, I'm generally of the opinion that studdable tires are better in deep snow and are sometimes less prone to slushplaning due to a more open tread pattern. But if they're not studded, they're not great on ice or polished hardpack. Studless tires are better on most hardpack, ice, etc. but not as good in deep snow (tread pattern is often too tight). If you spend a lot of time on near-freezing ice or really polished hardpack at higher temps, you want studs. If your ice is usually cold and dry or you're on very cold polished hardpack, studs won't provide much benefit.
I put a set of Sailun Ice Blazers on my B13 Sentra. They work pretty darn well, for $200cdn worth of tires.
In reply to 84FSP :
We are on the 6 th year with my wife's Honda CRV ( AWD) and the Blizzacks are still nice and sticky.
Minnesota where winter lasts 6 months of often 20 below or colder. Snow is measured in feet.
Now I'm very careful once temps hit 50 the tires come off and don't go back on until just about Thanksgiving when I can be sure temps won't reach 50 again.
FWIW, my metric for when to take snows on/off is as follows: They go on in the fall at the first credible threat of snow or when it starts dipping down to 30* or so overnight. They come off in the spring when we're unlikely to get further snow or when it stops getting below 30-ish overnight. Usually that means they go on in late November, although some years I've made it well into December. This year they went on early due to an early cold snap and first snow (first week of November).
Old thread, but back from the dead.
Here we are, nearly 4 years later.
Where do I go for some real cheap snow tires? I'm aiming for $75/tire or less for 15" wheels.
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